Genealogy Chat

Hello Wendy

I am really trying to help but you haven't answered any of the questions I have been asking you.
Your original query was to sort out which of 3 Harry Swifts might be yours.
I have looked and found only one Harry whose father was a William.

Therefore the William Swift who was a tool broker in 1881 looks likely to have been the father of your Harry.

I asked you to give details of the Bromsgrove school you say that you saw Harry in at the time of the 1891 census. I have looked at the 1891 and saw no-one of that name in a school in Bromsgrove. The only Harry I found who looked likely in 1891 was the one with William Swift (same one as the one in 1881).

I am really confused about where you are finding your supposed facts. As far as I can see it all looks pretty straight forward and should be a simple job now of tracking that William Swift back in 1871, 61, 51 etc.

So I repeat.....what are the addresses of the 3 Harry Swifts you said you found on a census and which census was it?!!!!

Sue

Sue,
William does not fit any of these still alive on 1891 census many thanks for all your help kind
regards Wendy

I give up Wendy.

I cannot understand why you aren't answering any of my questions about the research you have done so far.

I don't imagine anyone is going to be able to help if you can't tell us how you have come to the conclusions you have already reached.

You said you had 3 Harry Swifts who all had fathers called William yet you have not shown us where you found that out or any evidence whatsoever for that claim.

The fact that William is reported as a blacksmith by his son when Harry married is interesting but doesn't necessarily mean William was always a blacksmith. We have already established that William was dead when Harry married so not present at the wedding. Maybe his last job had been as a blacksmith but it may not have been when Harry was born or a small child.

This isn't the brickwall you seem to think it is.

Sue

Hello Sue, Thank you for all your help. Harry Swift is on Bromsgrove School census1891 boarder, he may not be my grandfather. Their are lots of Harry Swift's Two with father's named william one born in Bromsgrove tool broker and the other born in Edgbaston Birmingham wine merchant. my infomation has come from the national archives census. I have only just started researching my family tree into my 3rd week) Sue many thanks for your time I appreciate the help given. kind regards Wendy

Hello Wendy


I have checked the 1881 census twice using two different sites. I'm sorry but I think you are wrong.
There is only ONE Harry Swift who has a father called William in 1881 who is the right sort of age and in the right area.


The Wine merchant isn't called WILLIAM
If Harry's father is a William then this cannot be the right group.

Here is the 1881 census sheet with that father and son Harry.
Household:


Edwd. J. SWIFT Head M Male 32 Birm, Warwick, England Wine Merchant
Alice C. SWIFT Wife M Female 29 Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Harry SWIFT Son Male 2 Birm, Warwick, England

Source Information:
Dwelling 170 Sherlock St
Census Place Birmingham, Warwick, England
Family History Library Film 1341713
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 2980 / 62
Page Number 49

Please note that the Wine merchant is called Edward Swift.

You also say you found Harry in a school in 1891 but without details of the page you found him on that doesn't help us much.

Here are the only two Harry Swifts about the right age in Warwickshire in 1891.
The first one is the same one whose father is a William and this I think is yours.


SWIFT, Wm Head Widower M 46 Corporation Labourer
Bromsgrove
Worcestershire
SWIFT, Harry Son Single M 14 Electroplate Worker
Birmingham
Warwickshire
SWIFT, Annie Daughter F 10 Scholar
Birmingham
Warwickshire
ALBUT, Emma Housekeeper Single F 38 Housekeeper
Birmingham
Warwickshire

RG number:
RG12 Piece:
2385 Folio:
120 Page:
29

Registration District:
Birmingham Sub District:
St Martin EnumerationDistrict:
29 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Bishop Ryder

Civil Parish:
Birmingham Municipal Borough:
Birmingham Address:
25, Ryder Street, Birmingham County:
Warwickshire

There is only one other aged anything like the right age and this is him.
His father isn't mentioned but Harry's middle initial is wrong anyway!

SWIFT, Fanny Head Married F 37 Nail Cutter
Birmingham
SWIFT, Joseph H Son Single M 17 Engine Fitter
Birmingham
SWIFT, Ida A Daughter F 15 Jewellers Warehouse Girl
Birmingham
SWIFT, Harry R Son M 13 Errand Boy
Birmingham
SWIFT, Amy A Daughter F 5
Birmingham

RG number:
RG12 Piece:
2388 Folio:
53 Page:
24

Registration District:
Birmingham Sub District:
St George EnumerationDistrict:
18 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St Stephens

Civil Parish:
Birmingham Municipal Borough:
Birmingham Address:
317, Hospital Street, Birmingham County:
Warwickshire


I have looked at the index page for Ancestry and see there is indeed a Harry Swift of about the right age in Bromsgrove, Worcestershire in 1891

This record doesn't appear on Findmypast (which is where I was looking), I don't have current Ancestry subscription so perhaps someone else could kindly look for him and check his birth place. If you could cut and paste that record we could check it for you.

Sue

Hi Sue, Thank you I am getting confused
I will go through all my finding this weekend The Harry at boarding school Bromsgrove census1891 is not mine. You may be right is their anyway I can prove this through b/m/d cerificatie? thank you once again for the wonderful help you have given me. (must get back to work) kind regards Wendy

Hi Wendy

With the address you pm'd me with for Harry Swift it is the same as the pension record on Ancestry for a Harry Swift Engineer.

There is no information that I can see about his parents, but I am sure you would like to see it, I wil pm you the details.

Gail.

I have just read Sue's census images and in the pension record it says he had been a Groom and an Electroplate Worker in civilian life...

Gail.

Right!

That then confirms my theory Wendy.

This is your Harry in 1891

SWIFT, Wm Head Widower M 46 Corporation Labourer
Bromsgrove
Worcestershire
SWIFT, Harry Son Single M 14 Electroplate Worker
Birmingham
Warwickshire
SWIFT, Annie Daughter F 10 Scholar
Birmingham
Warwickshire
ALBUT, Emma Housekeeper Single F 38 Housekeeper
Birmingham
Warwickshire

RG number:
RG12 Piece:
2385 Folio:
120 Page:
29

Registration District:
Birmingham Sub District:
St Martin EnumerationDistrict:
29 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Bishop Ryder

Civil Parish:
Birmingham Municipal Borough:
Birmingham Address:
25, Ryder Street, Birmingham County:
Warwickshire

Sue

Going back 10 years this is then him with his family in 1881

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
William SWIFT Head M Male 36 Bromsgrove, Worcester, England Tool Broker
Ann SWIFT Wife M Female 35 Bromsgrove, Worcester, England Assistant To Above
Mary Jane SWIFT Daughter Female 14 Bromsgrove, Worcester, England Scholar
Harry SWIFT Son Male 3 Birmingham, Warwick, England
Annie SWIFT Daughter Female 7 m Birmingham, Warwick, England


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 20 Tanter Street
Census Place Birmingham, Warwick, England
Family History Library Film 1341714
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 2990 / 84
Page Number 24

Note baby Annie who was 10 in 1891

This makes William's wife Ann. She died before the 1891 census

Sue

Ann Swift actually died in 1888

Deaths Dec 1888
Swift Ann 42 Birmingham 6d 49


Sue

There is quite a big gap between William's daughter Mary Jane then little Harry and Annie in 1881.

I'm wondering if this means that Annie might have been William's second wife. I spotted a marriage of a William Swift and Ann Grainger here but this is too late for her to be Mary Jane's mother too.

Marriages Jun 1872
Grainger Ann Aston 6d 336

Good hunting
Sue

Hi Sue

I think that does add a lot of weight to it being that family.

Do we have him on 1901, I think on his pension record it said he joined initially in 1895 so he could have been away fighting. I cannot look as all I am getting from Ancestry is 'Check Back Soon' etc.

Gail.

I looked at the 1901 decoder but the only Harry Swift I could see was a 22 year old wine merchant. I think that is going to be the one who was the son of Edward Swift the wine merchant.
Looks to me as if Wendy's Harry Swift was away in 1901.

Sue

Had another look at his pension record and it says he was in India between 19th November 1897 and January 1903.

Gail.

aha

we're good Gail!

LOL

Sue

I'm a little confused by the 1871 census.

Just went back a bit and found William and family when they were in Bromsgrove with their oldest daughter.
His wife then is an Ann so he either had two wives called Ann or there were a number of children who either died or weren't at home in 1881.

The daughter is called Mary Ann not Mary Jane in 1871 and I've seen the original census record. It may be that the 1881 is incorrect about Mary's middle name.


This is what the 1871 says.
SWIFT, William Head M 26 Worcestershire
SWIFT, Ann Wife F 26 Worcestershire
SWIFT, Mary A Daughter F 3 Worcestershire
RG number:
RG10 Piece:
3071 Folio:
20 Page:
33

Registration District:
Bromsgrove Sub District:
Bromsgrove EnumerationDistrict:
1 Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Bromsgrove Municipal Borough:
Address:
Strand (Court House), Bromsgrove County:
Worcestershire

I think William's occupation is nailer......that is what it looks like.

Sue

The daughter is definitely Mary Ann Swift. There are no Mary Janes of the right age anywhere near.

Births Jun 1868
SWIFT Mary Ann Bromsgrove 6c 399

Sue

I think this is probably the birth of father William

Births Dec 1844
SWIFT William Bromsgrove 18 209

and here he is on the IGI with his parents William and Jane (batch number P020916)

WILLIAM SWIFT
Christening: 24 NOV 1844 Bromsgrove, Worcester, England
Parents:
Father: WILLIAM SWIFT
Mother: JANE


These are all the children of older William and Jane in that batch

1. JANE SWIFT -Gender: Female Christening: 30 APR 1848 Bromsgrove, Worcester, England

2. RICHARD SWIFT - Gender: Male Christening: 26 FEB 1843 Bromsgrove, Worcester, England

3. WILLIAM SWIFT -Gender: Male Christening: 24 NOV 1844 Bromsgrove, Worcester, England

4. MARY ANN SWIFT - Gender: Female Christening: 26 MAY 1850 Bromsgrove, Worcester, England

5. CHARLOTTE SWIFT - Gender: Female Christening: 27 NOV 1853 Bromsgrove, Worcester, England

6. GEORGE SWIFT - Gender: Male Christening: 31 MAY 1846 Bromsgrove, Worcester, England

7. AGNES SWIFT - Gender: Female Christening: 28 MAR 1852 Bromsgrove, Worcester, England


Sue

Yes, think he is a Nailer on the 61, there is a big gap between children....had he been somewhere or like you say married to two Ann's or just lost children...

Wonder where Harry got Harry Louis from on his marriage certificate, I cannot find a birth registration for a Harry Louis Swift.

Gail.