Genealogy Chat

Hi, Janet,

Thanks for your reply!

Alexander Cameron copied the records from the Irish monks, written in Erse and translated them into English. Hence, one page of the book is in Erse and the facing page is in English. To say that Alexander Camerson wrote it, is not quite accurate.

Amazingly, considering today's opinion of the Irish, they were highly civilised in those days. Their wiritngs and architecture were far advanced compared to the rest of Britain. It seems to me that the Irish, since they avoided the Roman invasion, kept their beliefs and culture more Middle Eastern. They, also, seemed to populate Wales and Western Scotland, as Erse, Gaelic and Welsh languages are so similar.

There will always be ancestors whom we cannot 'prove' simply because the cetificates didn't exist. However, all we have to go on is the written records of others, such as Reliquae Celticae and the Bible.

Linking with an inheritance is not the point of the exercise! Nor is saying that I am one of the many millions of decendants of William the Conqueror!

A thought about 1633 - Was the Great Fire of London 1666? Could this be the link? I would love to find a book with all the great and minor events of this country in chronological order, so that I could relate them to ancestors.

Regarding my tree, I can only put in the ancestors I have found and there are so many I have not found. Therefore, putting in the few that I do have (so far 16, prior to 1000 AD) should not be too difficult, except for Genes program's inability to accept them. BUT if I find more!!!???!!!

All the Best,
Lindy.

Lindy

Thanks for your interesting perspective. Yes, the monks did record much of the handwritten material prior to the printed word when Caxton and others came on the scene in the 1400's. Bede, Benedict, St Augustine, Aquinas and the Lindisfarne Gospels, to name but a few, but having read some of these areas has not really helped my family history, though they have helped me to understand what is behind Family History but that is a different perspective..

Alexander Cameron wrote Reliquae Celticae between 1892 and 1894. I have not read it but I understand it is an interesting study of Gaelic Literature and Philogy. Could be interesting as I have one foot in Scotland, one in Ireland and one in England which is also part Irish. You seem to have studied this area in some depth.

I do not know any particular friendly librarians, but as an ex Librarian I have done my own research reading in Northants CRO, British Library and both Irish and English National Archives with some of the 16 century books a tad difficult to read in Olde English/Latin and French but luckily I do have some knowledge of both French and Latin and I have to say that I like to read all round the areas from whence my ancestors came. I belong to the Tipperary Historical Society and get a book each year for the past 15 years which is indepth into the history of the area to include much of the Celtic literature. I also belong to the Cork Hstorical Society and the Northants Record Society and all give me great insight into the social life of the times. I have found a Commonwealth Marriage and am looking indepth into the English Civil War and have a few ideas to get back from 1633 but no luck at present.

On the Irish side the family may well go back to the Great Hugh O''Neill, but I will have great difficulty in proving it because Irish records are just not around to get me back. I am a bit of a purist on FH and have to have proof before I consider that I have got back to a particular time.

One very prolific famous Irish writer we were lucky to meet one day, and he showed us his collection of old Irish books, and also showed us the tomb of Hugh O'Neill close to Ballyneale.

The further back you go yes it is true to say that you may well link into some form of inheritance and I have certainly found my own Northants line is possibly developing into an important line if only I can get further back.

No, I realise there were only about 4 million population in the UK around 1600, never mind when you get beyond 1066, although Black Death etc would have got rid of a few in the 1300's but I thought you meant inputting all your tree, not just the early ones which would then be millions?

Janet NLB

Hi, Janet,

Thanks for your reply.

The 'secret' of my success is simply a friendly professional genealogist/librarian, who had access to a vast number of books on the subject. He merely pointed out the pages to look at and left me to it.

Many of my lines have stopped around 1700, but the few that continued did so for a reason, usually inheritance. However, if the females' births were recorded, it shows that the family was more important. Time and time again, I have found this. The male line usually stops much more quickly than the female line. (I'd look very closely at your 1633 find.)

I am not hoping to put in millions of names. There weren't that many people in Britain before 1000 AD.

If you are interested in the Irish 'Kings', try to find a copy of 'Reliquiae Celticae'. This book records the line from Mleadh, c 1250 BC to Erc, c450 AD. The Irish monks were very keen to have everything written down and not rely on memory.

And, no, I'm not royalty but I am convinced that we are all connected to royalty somewhere along the line. After all, William the Conqueror gave lands to his supporters, which made them attractive as marriage partners! But by the time the estates had passed through several generations, divided between the sons, they dwindled until there was little left.

All the Best in your search. (It is great fun, whatever you find!)
Lindy.

P.S. to Robert - I use Word, for listing ancestors.

What puzzles me most is that GEDCOM is not a program; it's a file format and need not be 'installed'.
If you are using a computer (any computer) you are using a program to input the data, The question is;- does the program you are using to input and store your data SUPPORT the GedCom file format? If so problem solved.

Lindy

Not sure how I have managed to find Settlement Certs, Apprenticeship Certs, Army Musters, Bailiff docs back to the early 1700's, Estate Records, Marriage Licences back to the 1600's, letters to the National newspapers written in the 1850's by a great Uncle and a whole host more without doing my own research and I am sure I am not the only one on GR with this sort of info, but then you must also have all these docs otherwise you could not have got back so far!

Can't say I have been to Salt Lake City, but then the ones in Salt Lake City are only correct if they are the transcripts from the original Parish Registers, although we all know from Ancestry and the 1901 Census how unreliable that transcripts can be at times, and so need checking with the original registers. The ones that are submitted by others are only as accurate as the info put on them by those who submitted them and I have seen many going back to Adam but you are not that serious are you???

Perhaps you can share the secret of your success? I know many would be very interested.

Especially interesting about the Irish "Kings", as I am sure that you know that although they were known as "Kings" they were actually Chieftains or Clansmen, so that could be a bit of dodgy research?

Unfortunately there is no one around from yesteryear to tell us the correct interpretation of the Bible, especially with its many translations, and so all we have today are many human interpretations. many of which will have been lost in the mists of time with all those translations, on this Great Book, but that is all it is, interpretations, and very interesting, they all are. The Dead Sea Scrolls still have too many gaps, although the book on the Da Vinci Code tried to work hard on it, but all this human interpretation makes it difficult to come forwards from the Bible. We may just have to wait patiently for the Second Coming.

I can't say that I envy you wanting to input millions of names. I have found inputting about 500 is as much as I can cope with, so all the best of luck to you as I think you will need it.

If you are royalty then I can't compete!

I have lost one line at 1633 when the name then appears in Beds/Northants/Leicestershire/ and I cannot at present determine where the missing link might be, whilst on my Irish line surprise surprise oral history has it we come down the line of one of the "Kings". I think every Irish person must be told that.

Janet NLB

Hi, Rob,

Thanks for your message.

It seems that I can't enter these ancestors without a genealogy package.

I started doing all this on borrowed Library computers. Everything had to be hand-written to transfer to my old AppleMac. Now I use my daughter's laptop, so there is little point in changing my system, unless or until I change from my Apple. Anyway, I like to see the hard copy from time to time.

Genes have suggested that I use GedCom, (which I have - unused) but as I said, it is my daughter's laptop and it would mean copying all programs and files on her laptop, to secure them, before loading GedCom. This requires her pemission ??**?? and time to do this !!**!!

Consequently, I cannot enter BC dates in the normal way. Even entering dates before 1000 AD is difficult, if I want to go back and change or add the information.

I now have about 12 lines which go back through the Irish Kings and another 4 lines through the more Mythical Danish Kings, waiting at about 1000 AD until I have solved this problem. AND I would really like to get this done!!!!!

:-(
Lindy.

Lindy
If you have your info on a genealogy package at present then I don't see the difficulty in producing a GEDCOM to upload. All packages have a GEDCOM Export facility. From your original post GR seem to be saying you can't ENTER a BC date, but it would be accepted from a GEDCOM file.
Have I understood this right?
Rob

Hi Lindy
I dont think I will be able to get back that far, as my family were nearly all Ag labs or cotton mill workers not landed gentry, I am doing ok, but was interested to know how to get futher back
best wishes
Ann

Hi, Ann

In my local library, there is a professional genealogist, who helped me by finding the relevant books to read. They had a series, which included the genealogy of the landed gentry. So, when I asked the Genealogist about certain families on my tree, he produced these and other books. As they are for Reference only, I had to hand-write the relevant parts. Gradually, I got further an further back. And more and more of my families tied in to the same family. (There weren't that many people around in 1000 AD!)

I was off work for 2 years from early 2002 and not able to do much, so a lot of my research was done, then.

Hi, Janet,

In my book, using someone else's research, is not research. Just copying on the back of that person's hard work. But going to the original documents is research, because you don't know who you will find or where it is going. And having found these documents, they are the proof that your findings are correct.

Of course, the Bible is full of genealogies, but unless you start from this end, you don't know which line to follow.

Lindy
I am very impressed that you have gotten back that far, how long has it taken you.
Can I ask where you get the pre 1500ad records from
Thanks
Ann

Ah, it must be the Holy Ghost himself. Is it that time already???

I hope GR is listening and can come up with the goods very smartly.

Waiting in anticipation!

I thought we all did our own research?????


Capricorn

Well, there you are that lets me off the hook unless my time comes around once more!

Janet

Thanks to all of you!

Robert - Sorry, no time or MONEY! I don't pay for someone to see my research. If I can get it on Genes, all can see for free!

Whiskey Soda - Use of BC and prior to 1000 AD is obvious!

Sam - Hi! I have relatives in Newcastle-Under-Lyme!

Janet - Who said I used registers and that there are NO records? I do my own research and I'm VERY sceptical of the research of other's!

Capricorn on the Cusp - See reply to Janet! Pension not enough! Work 3 days a week, so NO time, either!

Reggie - NO wind-up!

If I can persuade Genes to alter their basic programme, you will all the able to see and comment on my findings! So far, they aren't playing!
But if you all send them messages, saying you are interested, MAYBE they would consider it.

I too am looking forward to retirement, I have 8 years left to do and am counting the weeks.
I would dearly like to know what a Government Artisit is

Ann

Robert

Maybe she'll respond if you do what Ryan Sidebottom did today on the cricket field!!

Reg

Now then Reg, we've got to take someone who has done that much research seriously. I am looking forward to doing her tree for her. Do you think she will answer if I drop my price?

I'm sure this is a wind-up...........or the poster had a few too many sherbets!

Reg

Come on Lindy, we're all trying to help.

Whew, all that talking about work makes me feel tired. Being retired is fun! Wouldn't go back to work if you paid me!

Janet

Right Capricorn got it in one or two!! Might take a leaf out of Robert's book and offer to do same at a competitive price but on second thoughts have I really got the time?? There is a real Blackadder in Scotland you know! I found the family whilst looking for my Scottish Gibsons.

Janet NLB