Genealogy Chat

This thread is like a book that I can't put down. It is such a lovely, caring true story Wendy

Hi All, I am calling to see Mr. Win Evans this evening. It is he who we must thank for bringing to our attention the plight of little Patricia Armstrong. I just happen to live in the area and like yourselves, once I read the story it intrigued me. Special thanks must go to all who pointed me to some very important links. Also thanks to all who have contributed either advice or help or both. Finding out what happened to Patricia has become a team effort and hopefully I can post whatever new information Win has uncovered very soon. What is still unknown is if William Armstrong enlisted in the RAF and was killed in WW2? Who paid for the burial? Was Patricia an only child? Bye Paul

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hi paul... i am following this sad tale, its good to know that there are some genuinely decent people who are willing to give thier time and effort to help in this search... you start to get a picture in your mind of what little patricia may have been like.... regards stacy

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Hi Paul, There are two possibles on the list of the RAF deaths overseas for William Armstrong: Flight Lieutenant, number 41812, unit (B?)PO/GIB, died 1943 (ref vol 1 page 131) ; and AC.2, number 866588 (middle initial V), unit 322 MU, died 1944 (ref also vol 1 page 131) There may be unit histories available?

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Hello Ivy, You have been more successful than I have been. May I ask where the information came from. Can anyone shed light on which Units are being referred to. Many thanks Paul

This is like an epic - such a sad story- nudging so i can read all. Julie

nudging so I can keep track of this. Keep up the good work

Hello All, I called this evening to speak with Win Evans and drop off copies of all the emails from GR members showing him what interest his story had provoked. He was extremely pleased that there was such feeling for Patricia considering how long ago the tragic loss of life occurred. What he did tell me was that at the moment he had not written it all down but did have contact details of people who recalled the event. He had also had a telephone conversation with the eye witness. It is his intention to write a follow up for the November issue of the Radyr Parish Newsletter where he would be happy to include any details uncovered by GR members and wishes to thank you all for your interest. We agreed that he would search the Radyr Parish Burial Records Archives and I would search for the inquest report or newspaper coverage. What he told me was:- The lady who rang him was the eye witness and had been with Patricia on the day when she was struck by the train. She was the friend referred to below. On a Saturday afternoon Patricia and her friend (aged eight) made their way to Bayliss Farm about a quarter of a mile from where she was living with Mr & Mrs Arthur Harris, 8 Gelynis Terrace North, Morganstown to collect milk for the grandmother. This was a trip they had done several times before. About 100 yards from the farm they needed to cross the railway lines. Clambering over the wooden stile they would carefully cross the tracks before climbing back over the second stile which led to the farm. On this occasion the girls decided to play on the stile. A steam train thundered past. This normally would not have been a problem and, they would have been aware of it coming down the track, all except for a twist of fate. A second train coming from the opposite direction crossed paths with the first and the suction it created pulled Patricia, being on the inner side of the stile, into its path and killed her instantly. The eye witness was in shock for a considerable period and she now believes that the lady dressed all in black who visited her while home in bed ill was most probably Henrietta, Patricia’s mother down to attend the funeral and had called in to see how she was. An inquest was held and statements were given by the engine driver. Win also believes that her father may have been on active service or possibly had already become a casualty of war prior to her death and may explain why he had not attended the funeral. How much this story will change by the time the November issue comes out I do not know but hopefully the information is close to the truth Bye Paul

No Surname Rank Service Number Date Of Death Age Regiment/Service Nationality Grave/Memorial Ref. Cemetery/Memorial Name 1 ARMSTRONG, WILLIAM Flight Lieutenant 41812 18/02/1943 21 Royal Air Force United Kingdom 3. G. 15. DELY IBRAHIM WAR CEMETERY 2 ARMSTRONG, WILFRED EDWARD Aircraftman 2nd Class 1061637 12/05/1941 Unknown Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve United Kingdom Sec. A.3. Grave 37. SEGHILL (HOLY TRINITY) CHURCHYARD 3 ARMSTRONG, WILLIAM VIPOND Corporal 866588 16/08/1944 35 Royal Air Force (Auxiliary Air Force) United Kingdom 6. E. 2 .DELHI WAR CEMETERY as found on the CWGC site - are they any help ? Linda

Hello Ivy Fox and Carter 56 Many thanks for the info. Have access to Ancestry but not to Findmypast. Will search Ancestry and see what I can uncover. Many thanks Paul

Hi, Paul, FindMyPast has overseas BMDs - things like army family births, war deaths etc. I couldn't find it on Ancestry just now, but it may be that I wasn't looking in the right place? I've not had any luck with the units. (Update, crossed with yours) My heart goes out to Henrietta.

Following my last message...did you have any luck in finding the stonemason who did the gravestone? Any records of who paid for it?

Hi All, Have taken a look at the William Armstrong listed as RAF who died during WW2 as commemorated by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. ARMSTRONG, WILLIAM Initials: W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Flight Lieutenant Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Age: 21 Date of Death: 18/02/1943 Service No: 41812 Additional information: Son of William and Jessie Armstrong, of Darlington, Co. Durham; husband of Bertha Elizabeth Armstrong. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: 3. G. 15. Cemetery: DELY IBRAHIM WAR CEMETERY Name: ARMSTRONG, WILFRED EDWARD Initials: W E Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Aircraftman 2nd Class Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve Unit Text: 504 Sqdn. Date of Death: 12/05/1941 Service No: 1061637 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Sec. A.3. Grave 37. Cemetery: SEGHILL (HOLY TRINITY) CHURCHYARD ARMSTRONG, WILLIAM VIPOND Initials: W V Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Corporal Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force (Auxiliary Air Force) Age: 35 Date of Death: 16/08/1944 Service No: 866588 Additional information: Son of John Andrew and Florence Isobel Armstrong; husband of Elizabeth Armstrong, of Winlaton Mill, Co. Durham. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: 6. E. 2. Cemetery: DELHI WAR CEMETERY Unfortunately I do not think he is any of the above. There is no reference to Henrietta (Hetty) his wife or to Woolwich. Many thanks Paul

Hi Deetortraining Newfys, Win Evans is hoping to uncover the burial details which he believes are in the church archives and should hold a reasonable amount of details. He is hoping to find out who owned or paid for the plot and who organised the service arrangements. I will post the details as soon as he is able to give me something. Thanks Paul

Paul This is such a touching story - can't wait for the next update. I'd be happy to go to woolwich (tomorrow) and get the birth cert if you think it would help. Let me know Rachel

Hello Rachel, That would be absolutely fabulous if you could and very kind of you. It would confirm her parents names and get rid of any niggling doubts I may have. Thanks Paul

A poem for all our lost little children Fairy castles In a fairy castle far beyond my eyes... >My baby plays with angel toys... >That money cannot buy... Who am i to wish you back... into this world of strife... >No my baby you sleep on... You have eternal life. >At night when i am sleeping.. > yet sleep forsake my eyes... > I hear your tiny footprints...> Come running to my side... > Your tiny hands caress me...> So tender and so sweet...> I close mmy eyes and say a prayer... > Embrace you in my sleep. >