Genealogy Chat

Hi Sylvia Wow you have been working hard. I got all excited with the Tinworths but like you realised they were just a red herring but a very interesting one. I believe that the Eliza in the 1861 Greenwich workhouse is the right one and also that the death cert for William 1861 might be worth looking at. I think you could be right about William being in a hospital. I don’t think they did get married – but perhaps the death cert will answer that question. Thanks again Chris

OOOOPSIES, ................... may have goofed with the Tinworth marriage. But i've left it in for you to see! I've just found this Eliza Willing in Milton on the 1861 census:- about Eliza Willing Name: Eliza Willing Age: 37 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1824 Relation: Head Gender: Female Where born: Grays, Essex, England Civil Parish: Milton Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity Town: Gravesend County/Island: Kent Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View Image Registration district: Gravesend Sub-registration district: Gravesend ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 147 Household Members: Name Age Frederick Perritt 6 Mo Eliza Willing 37 Elizabeth Willing 16 George Willing 6 William Willing 9 It could be WElling on the image ................... but I may have been misled!!

I wonder if this is their death registrations? Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Deaths Mar 1890 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tinworth Eliza 64 Orsett 4a 229 - - - Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Deaths Dec 1893 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tinworth James 79 Orsett 4a 270 Orsett is in Essex and this is the 1881 Census:- about Eliza Tinworth Name: Eliza Tinworth Age: 55 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: James Gender: Female Where born: Grays, Essex, England Civil Parish: Langdon Hills County/Island: Essex Country: England Street address: Dry St Condition as to marriage: Married Education: Employment status: View Image Registration district: Orsett Sub-registration district: Orsett ED, institution, or vessel: 10 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Eliza Tinworth 55 James Tinworth 65 b. ca 1816, Langdon Hills, Essex

Well!!! What d'ya know??? about Eliza Tinworth Name: Eliza Tinworth Age: 47 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1824 Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: James Gender: Female Where born: Essex, England Civil Parish: Milton Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity Town: Gravesend County/Island: Kent Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View Image Registration district: Gravesend Sub-registration district: Gravesend ED, institution, or vessel: 2 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 195 Household Members: Name Age Eliza Tinworth 47 James Tinworth 56 b. ca 1815, Essex, Labourer George Wellin 10 b.ca 1861, Milton next Gravesend, Kent, Seaman Address:- 7 Sussex Place, Milton, Gravesend. BUT .................. George's entry on the actual image is a mess, to say the very least!!! a) Originally written George W Tinworth b) Tinworth crossed out, and Wellin(?g) written in over George c) possibly William added to the W d) his age could be 16 not 10 Sylvia

Hi afgain, It's only just after 8pm here ................... I'm on the west coast of Canada!! What do you think about this marriage registration?????? Surname First name(s) District Vol Page -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages Sep 1861 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brierly Elizabeth Ann Gravesend 2a 439 Mahomed Hassan Ben Gravesend 2a 439 Timworth James Gravesend 2a 439 WELLING Eliza Gravesend 2a 439 Sylvia

I will definately send off for his death cert. Thanks for that. Well, your just having your dinner but its now nearly 3am here so I am off to bed will pop back in in the morning Thanks again for all your help Chris

Nearly dinnertime for me!! I'll look back after we've eaten.

There is this death ...... although it happens after the census was taken so if it is him, he should have shown up. Maybe he was in the hospital part of the workhouse???? Deaths Jun 1861 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Welling William Dartford 2a 154 May be it is worth getting the certificate and finding out if it is him an dwho registered the death????????????

There is a possible other son for William named Daniel b1858 if he is their son then he does not show up on the 1861 but does appear later in life when he is married. Have got to pop out to pick daughter up from club will check back in when I get back.

Yes you could be right - or he could have walked out on them but he is not listed anywhere else. So chances are he could have died by then. Maybe they never married - you could be right about that too. Thanks Chris

I wonder if William and Eliza really did marry??? He seems to have disappeared off the radar ......... could he have died prior to 1861, hence Eliza and children being in the Workhouse?

Considering how quick he married after Ann died I would'nt be surprised if he was at it again. lol Chris

Thank you Sylvia & Rose I found the family in Deptford but Ann died in 1884 and Stephen remarried to a lady called Rose. Eliza had moved out and married herself in 1898. Chris

Stephen's marriage No 1 Surname First name(s) District Vol Page -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages Sep 1879 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Appell John George Greenwich 1d 1218 SELBY John Greenwich 1d 1218 TAYLOR Ann Greenwich 1d 1218 TEMPLETON Annie Greenwich 1d 1218 Welling Stephen Greenwich 1d 1218 - - - Can't find a marriage to a Rose before 1901 BUT there is this one in 1905:- Surname First name(s) District Vol Page -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages Sep 1905 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ROPER George Francis Greenwich 1d 1811 Smith Charlotte Greenwich 1d 1811 TAYLOR Agnes Isabel Greenwich 1d 1811 WELLING Stephen Greenwich 1d 1811 Are they all the same Stephen?????? Sylvia

Other information:- Albert Baker 19 brother-in-law, Hawker Bridget Dunn 6 niece David Dunn 8 nephew Dennis Dunn 3 nephew Rose Welling 30 b. ca 1871, Brighton, Sussex Stephen Welling 36 Hawker Stephen Welling 14 b. ca 1887, Deptford Susan Whitewood 43 Boarder Address:- 4 Knotts Terr, Deptford South Sylvia

Is this Stephen in 1901??? about Stephen Welling Name: Stephen Welling Age: 36 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Rose Gender: Male Where born: Greenwich, Kent, England Civil Parish: Deptford St Paul Ecclesiastical parish: St John Deptford County/Island: London Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View Image Registration district: Greenwich Sub-registration district: Deptford, South ED, institution, or vessel: 16 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 385 Household Members: Name Age Albert Baker 19 Bridget Dunn 6 David Dunn 8 Dennis Dunn 3 Rose Welling 30 Stephen Welling 36 Stephen Welling 14 Susan Whitewood 43

Where are they in 1891 and 1901? Rose

1881: Household: Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability Stephen WELLING Head M Male 21 Greenwich, Kent, England Hawker Annie WELLING Wife M Female 23 Born, Surrey, England Hawker Eliza WELLING Dau Female 8 m Deptford, Kent, England Abigale D. RUTHBILLING Other U Female 26 Portsmouth, Hampshire, England Needlewoman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Information: Dwelling Hales Street Census Place Deptford St Paul, Kent, England Family History Library Film 1341164 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 0701 / 75 Page Number 11 Rose

1881 census .......... Stephen about Stephen Welling Name: Stephen Welling Age: 21 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Annie Gender: Male Where born: Greenwich, Kent, England Civil Parish: Deptford St Paul County/Island: London Country: England Street address: Hales Street Condition as to marriage: Married Education: Employment status: View Image Occupation: Hawker Registration district: Greenwich Sub-registration district: St Paul Deptford ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Abigale D. Ruthbilling 26 (living in same house, no apparent connec ion) Annie Welling 23 b. ca 1858, Surrey, Hawker Eliza Welling 2 mos b.ca 1891, Deptford, Kent Stephen Welling 21 Hawker

I have only found the family on the 1891 & 1901 census I have not been able to find them on any others Chris