Genealogy Chat

On my great great grandmothers birth certificate it says that her parents were JANE GREEP and JOHN BURNS. I have uncovered records on FREEBMD and Ancestry that puzzle me exceedingly. here goes...........

........ 1) MARRIAGE REFERENCE - 1867 - JOHN BURNS - STOKE DAMEREL Also on that page of the index is a JANE GREEP and the piece/folio/page numbers are the same as JOHN BURNS. 2) MARRIAGE REFERENCE - 1870 - JOHN BURNS - STOKE DAMEREL Also on that page is a JANE GREEP and the piece/folio/page numbers are the same as THIS JOHN BURNS. So which cert do I order?????? GREEP is quite an uncommon name and to get BOTH first AND surnames of EACH partner is really puzzling. If anyone can shed any light on this problem - or if you think you know why there would be two only 3yrs apart then PLEASE let me know!!! Thank you! -Kat

Surely the best thing to do is to double check on the 1837 site. Look for one of the names in both quarters/years, if you find that name in one or both of them, check the same quarters/years for the second name. If you find the two names on both occasions, I would say send for both certificates. Unless you know either of their fathers' names, in which case you can ask for that to be checked before the certs are sent to you. Jan

Go back to the St Catherines index and check on there. What has possibly happened is one has been transcribed wrongly and until they check they put both entries on freebmd. St C can be found in your local library or 1837.com George

Katrina, When was their first child born? Crista

Somebody else on this site had a similar puzzle a few days ago. It was suggested that on the first marriage one or both partners were underage so they married again a few years later just to make sure it was legal and the marriage was valid. Can you find them on 1881 Census and see what ages they gave?

I have checked the 1837 and they are BOTH there. Their first child was born between 1868 and 1871...it varies according to which cert/census she was recorded on! It's just so expensive to order both certificates...I am ordering so many at this stage in my research as I have exhausted the censuses and need to go further back! Thanks anyway - further suggestions very much appreciated! -Kat

HELEN - I will check that now...you may have found the answer! Best Wishes, -Kat

No...they would have been 23 and 24 by 1867. Though with they way people constantly airbrushed their ages in those days that might not be correct!! -Kat

Interesting that the birth of the first child occurs a year after both marriages also. Crista

I have her recorded as being born in 1868, 1870 and 1871...her birth, marriage, death and ALL census records giving one of those three alternatives! -Kat

Katrina, I see several families with a Jane and John Burns in the 1881 census. Which one is the right one? Crista

In 1881 Jane burns has the children Harry, Alice, John, William living with her and her husband John is at sea. They are living in Eastney. -Kat

Katrina, I see the second marriage took place when Jane was pregnant with Harry and just before they moved to Eastney. Maybe they had lost the first certifcate and needed another one to show the navy? Margery gets younger and younger for each census. I expect this is because she was still single until she was in her 30s. I think this is common. I'd take the age on the earliest census as being closer to her true age. Looking at FreeBMD, all the children had Lambert as a middle name. Maybe that name was Jane or John's mother's maiden name or that of a distinguished relative. Crista

Crista, It seems as though I will have to get both certificates if I am to be sure. I cannot discover where the Lambert comes from but yes, they do all carry the name (on Margey's marriage cert her father is listed as John Lambert Burns too so perhaps it was HIS mothers name.) The eldest son is the only one with another name, he is Harry Thomas Lambert. The theory about needing another cert to show the navy is a good one - on the census Jane is living with the kids in Naval accommodation (1881) and so maybe the navy wanted proof before they gave her a house? Thank you so much for your suggestions, -Kat

Katrina I know it is expensive, but you may wish to consider ordering both marriage certificates if you are sure that the John Burns and Jane Greep references match in both cases. My great grandparents married in church in 1890 and at a Register Office in 1892. The details on both certificates are consistent enough to convince me that both marriage certificates relate to the same couple. I have yet to find out why they married twice and can only assume that the first marriage was, for some reason, invalid. To compound the problem, gt grandfather was in barracks in the intervening 1891 census and declared himself (or somebody did) as single. Meanwhile, gt grandmother, at home with her apparently legitimate child, was quite content to declare herself married. The marriage survived until gt grandfather's death almost ten years later. As you say, "Curiouser and Curiouser"!!!! David

Katrina Just spotted Helen's message. The other person on this site with the same puzzle was me! Since then, I have found evidence that gt grandfather was definitely not underage. Despite a 15 year search on 1837 online, I can find no trace of my gt grandmother's birth. I'll let you and Helen know if I ever get to the bottom of this. Meanwhile, does anybody else out there have any bright ideas? David

Katrina.You can't lose.If you order one certificate you'll wonder what the 2nd one stated.If you order and get both certificates you will have solved the problem.If you order both and only one arrives you'll get a refund.Although I do agree with an earlier correspondent and suggest the St.Catherines Index(GRO)