Genealogy Chat

I am trying to find any information about my grandfather. I can't get any sense from the aunts & uncles, they all just end up arguing! As far as I can work out he was born Bert Harris in 1905 in the Islington area, his father was Henry Harris and his mother was Eliza. He had three brothers, Eli, Charles & William (all Harris). HOWEVER.... he was supposedly one of the last of 19 children. One of his sisters was Susan Creasey and one of his brothers was Frank Creasey. He had a slaughtering business at Smithfield Market in the name of Bert Creasey. I know they lived in Finsbury Park in the late 1930's / early 1940's. I cannot find him at all on the GRO, Hertford Registry Office cannot find his death registered (even though I have all the details) and I can't find the family on either the 1881 census or the 1901 census. Please, please can anyone help/point me where to look next? By the way, I live in Warwickshire so if anyone wants anything looking up at the County Records Office I will be going in about a fortnight. Thanks.

Hi, Have you looked on 1837 for his death, if not I'll have a look for you as I have a spare credit. Laurie

Thank you Laurie, that would be very kind of you. He was born 02 June 1905 I think in the Islington area. His family lived in Victor Road, Finsbury Park in the 1930's/1940's but not in 1901. I believe their occupations would either be Slaughter/Butcher/Cattle Drover for the men & the women had a laundry business. He died 10th December 1959 at Queen Vic Hospital, Old Welwyn and was buried 17th December 1959 at Datchworth Church.

Sarah I have found a Henry Harris and wife Eliza Harris in the 1891 census living in Islington, they have quite a few children, but none with the names you have listed. Henry was a Cabinet maker, could this be them? Lynda

Hi Linda, it could be them. The slaughtering business may have been bought, not handed down as we thought. The Harris children I mentioned would have been born after 1891 certainly. Are any names Jewish sounding? Dad remembers a picture over the fireplace of his grandad with a skull cap thing on his head.

Sarah there are some unusual names and some are Jewish here goes, Henry 23 Sarah 20 Deborah 6 Rebecca 13 Polly 3 Flounce(l) 18 (F)ranit 8 I've looked and looked at the last two names and thats what they look like they say. They lived 5, Richard Street Barnsbury,Islington.

I will follow these up, Linda. Thank you for taking the time to look for me. :-)

Hi Sarah, I have found two but I think the first one is yours. Bertram William Harris, June Quarter 1905 Bethnal Green (close to Islington) 1c 120 Bertram William Harris same quarter 1905 Edmonton (which is Enfield) 3a 615 Laurie I assume Bert is short for Bertram.

Thank you Laurie, I think you could be right!! How did you dind that, was it on 1837? Or is there another website that I haven't stumbled across yet?

Sarah, I think this is the same Harris family on the 1881 Census. The names aren't quite so exotic but are similar. Henery 37 born Islington fancy Cabinet Maker Eliza J 37 St Lukes Jewell Case Liner Eliza J 16 St Lukes Phoebe 14 St Lukes Henery B 12 St Lukes Sarah A 10 St Lukes Flora 8 Islington Walter Thomas 6 Islington Rebecca 4 Islington John Samuel 1 Islington Address is 74 Copenhagen St, London

Thank you very much Helen. I just need to find his actual birth certificate to confirm I am looking for the right name!! It's a shame we can't sneak a peek at a later census!!

Just thought, if Eliza was 37 in 1881 that means she would have been 61 when Bert was born! This can't be his Mum surely! But what if the daughter Eliza (16 in 1881) married a Creasy and Bert was their son?

Possibly, or Henery Jnr was his father & married a Creasey. There was a story that Bert's mother was Eliza & was the housekeeper. Could be that Eliza was actually the wife, who then died and the housekeeper (who either was or wasn't called Eliza) was Berts mother. It's very difficult to establish anything without a birth certificate, which they couldn't find at the GRO because I was told he was born in ISlington & obviously wasn't!!!!

Sarah Noticed on the 1901 that a lot of Harris families were Russian subjects, so this probably accounts for the unusual names.

hi sarah i need to go to warwick soon, did you have to book well in advance, or was it relatively easy, mine are the edwards and astill of harborough magna & easenhall,did you know that wendy boland has transcribed the 1841/51 census for some of warwick, i just keyed in 1841 census for the village i was looking for and found it, or try [email protected] marcie

Hi Marcia, I went on a Saturday and only booked the day before. It is a lovely facility full of exceedingly helpful, knowledgable people. They were great on the phone when I phoned to ask what I had to do etc. and great when I was there. They even got a volunteer to help my seven year old use the net and found loads of kiddy sites to keep her amused so I could research in peace (she was supposed to be helping me!). The only thing you should know (and I don't know if I'm teaching you to suck eggs on this) is that you can't take in bags/pens so I had to leave all my folders etc. that I had taken with me in a locker and you're only allowed to use pencils. Otherwise, couldn't recommend it more.