Genealogy Chat

Thanks Jacqui - will e-mail you. Cheers - Chrissie p.s. And what makes you think I'm not posh LOL :)))))

That's a beggar Chrissie - I thought you sounded so posh - lol Give me names and dates of death etc. and I'll look through the Day Books at work (we go back to 1907) and see what we can find. Our accountant has the Wrights Book which is useful if the people you are looking for had any sort of standing in the community (not that mine did of course) What Taverns are we talking about here? I'm sure my grandad would have known each one personally!!! E-mail me direct if you prefer. Jacqui in overcast Tollerton

Hiya Jackie. Great to hear from you. I meant that I didn't think that there would be too many named Spencer (there again, could be wrong!!!) From what Grahams cousin has told me I suspect he only had a VERY small place (I think he said somewhere near Trent Bridge or London Road). But you have made me feel very guilty now as I live in Nottingham too, so in theory whatever you know how to do I ought to be able to do the same. That directory sounds promising though. Any suggestions you can make would be very gratefully received. Did you notice that I have a 1901 image available if your interested. Have used up two looking for others, but have one left. Cheers (Ducky - Nottingham special) Chrissie

Hiya Chrissie - just been reading your epic search. sorry to disappoint you ducky, but there were thousands of "removal men" in Nottingham during the period in question. The firm I work for started off as "removals" (simply because they had a hand cart) became undertakers, and we still there now as funeral directors. Did you have any addresses? I live in Notitngham and might be able to look locally for you. Chap I work with has a Wrights Directory for 1906 so they might be in there. Jacqui

Hi Zoe I have just been looking on family search to try and find John Spencer birth or similar in Nottingham. No luck I'm afraid, mostly Earl Spencer (Diana's tree_ and Winston Spencer Churchill) don't think it will be either of them LOL. I have printed off everything that you have found for me and will have to delve into it later as I have to go off in a minute for a couple of hours. I do think that this John could hold the key to Martha as there can't have been too many removal men in Nottingham called Spencer. You may be right - her Father could be John's Brother - it may have been a family business. I can't thank you all enough for today. When you have a Smith problem or similar it can feel very daunting from time to time and although I would never give up (it means too much to my lovely Husband) there are times when you wonder where to go next. I found a Martha Smith death today (on1837) in 1910 aged 50 in Nottingham which would have made her 49 when she had the last child in 1909 (Graham's Father Thomas Harry) so I think we shall have to send for that (could do with winning the lottery). I shall also carry on looking for later deaths and also Marriages (although I am worried now in case she was married before). I shall also try and find out more about her possible Father (brother of John?) Don't forget ANYONE to let me know if you want a 1901 census image before it runs out at aprox 11.00am tomorrow. A BIG BIG THANK YOU TO EVERYONE. Chrissie

In 1891 there is a Martha SPencer aged 9 living with her grandparents: Spencer, Charlotte 66 Anston, Yorkshire Wife Worksop Nottinghamshire Spencer, John 72 Thorne, Yorkshire Head Worksop Nottinghamshire Spencer, Martha 9 Worksop, Nottinghamshire Grandaughter Worksop Nottinghamshire Spencer, Tom 21 Worksop, Nottinghamshire Son Worksop Nottinghamshire and this is the removal man with his family in 1891: Spencer, Eliza A 18 Radford, Nottinghamshire Daughter Radford Nottinghamshire Spencer, Elizabeth 46 Mansfield, Nottinghamshire Wife Radford Nottinghamshire Spencer, Elizabeth 20 Radford, Nottinghamshire Daughter Radford Nottinghamshire Spencer, Emily 9 Sheffield, Yorkshire Daughter Radford Nottinghamshire Spencer, John 44 Radford, Nottinghamshire Head Radford Nottinghamshire Spencer, William 16 Radford, Nottinghamshire Son Radford Nottinghamshire

Hi Zoe Thanks - I think this is the one I was talking about that I found ages ago. I got the 1901 census image for him at the time (I have just been looking, but couldn't find it quickly). I seem to remember that there was no Martha, but a gap in the childrens ages made me think it a possibility (I must have spent a fortune on these blessed Smiths). It's just where to go from there. Everyone has been such stars today - trying to help all they can. All very much appreciated. Thank you - Chrissie Just read your next reply - must have come on while I was typing this (I had to answer the phone half way through)I can't believe the trouble that you have gone to for me. I didn't think about it possibly being a Brother. If only I had Ancestry - roll on December, getting it for my birthday)

I've traced John back in 1871, 1881 and 1891 and he doesnt seem to have a daughter called Martha. It may be worth trying to find him in 1861 census to get a fathers name which we can look through for a sister called Martha. In 91 and 01 he is a Removal Contractor so its always possible he inherited the family business from the father - we just need to figure out who the father is

Found this guy on the 1901: could be father (if she was a bit younger than her husband) of brother?? John Spencer 55 Radford Notts Nottinghamshire Nottingham Removal Contractor

Thanks very much for all your suggestions. Unfortunately ZOE I don't know her Fathers name except as mentioned before i.e. "Donkey". I did once find a Spencer removal man in Nottingham but gave up when I couldn't find any Daughter Martha. Must dig it out and have a look at that one again. I have got so much paperwork collected over the months that I need to relook at it all closely. They were so thoughtless, giving there children such common names LOL. The oldest one that I gave up looking for (too many of them) was JACK SMITH and we all know how many variations of that there can be. Cheers - Chris

Chrissie, neither death certificate from those two periods will give a DOB but if the informant was a family member it should give you a rough age, (unless like my gmother they'd lied all their life!)

Chrissie The death certs that early wouldn't give a date of birth but it would give an age at death so you'd have a starting point. Do you know Father Spencer's christian name - maybe Martha was having a strop and went back to Mummy and Daddy's for the night. Zoe

Well, Every Easter I take my children from Wales to London, and stay with my parents without my other half . So if they ever did census near Easter holidays it would look like I live in London with my parents as a single mother. (There is no Box for that on the current census!)Whereas we are just on hols.... So just because she is not with her husband doesn't mean all that much. Maybe if he was a barman he worked long Hours and on the Sunday night had not yet got back to his own home. Also my great grandparents had one child in 1899 and another in 1910 and none at all in between, despite being poor and normally people of that era, breeding like rabbits!(I think there may have been a few "Love children " about though!) Kim

Hi Helen Thanks - That's what I suspected, but how on earth do you find a Martha Smith that could be any age from about 20-40 that could be staying with anyone, anywhere in the country!!!! I'm so glad you found yours. I think that I am going to have to try and find them another way. Does ANYONE know if a death certificate (one about 1910/1917 and the other about 1940/1947) would give date of birth please. Cheers - Chris

The wife may just have been staying somewhere else on census night. I found a great-aunt staying as a visitor with the gt grandparents, and her surname coupled with the fact that she was "sister-in-law" to head of household enabled me to find out my gt grandmother's maiden name. - Gt grandfather was a Williams, and they are almost as bad as Smith!

Yes thanks Gwyneth - I got the image yesterday which is why I have 3 to spare. I got the barman and 2 pages of the licenced victualler mentioned above. All good ideas though. Cheers - Chris

Hi again Heather Thanks for the tip. I will try the records board for a look up for the barman in Nottingham 1891. I asked for a lookup for Wiltshire yesterday, they will be sick of seeing me!! I don't have ancestry yet (hoping to get it for my birthday in Dec) but have tried to help people in the past on 1837 and 1901 so perhaps I shouldn't feel so guilty. All this has been very helpful in spurring me on (except perhaps the thought that she might have married Harry under a different name UGH LOL) Thanks again to everyone - Chrissie

Have you seen the 1901 image? I ask because I too had 'lost' a wife/mother from the census. As she was a DAVIES in Wales, it was a bit like your problem,and where do you start looking? - but when I viewed the actual printout, there she was, bold as brass even though she doesn't feature on the index.

Hi Gwyneth You have a point about the widow theory. On the 2 birth certs that I have it says Martha Smith nee Spencer, but I suppose she could have missed out her first married name. Oh dear, you realise what that would mean, where on earth would I start then!!!!!!!!!!! I have the marriage certificate for the 1882 Wiltshire couple but somebody tried to find them for me in 1891 Wiltshire with no success or Nottingham. I had a look on family search to see if I could find them in Wiltshire single in 1881 but the names are so common that you can't tell whether who have found them or not!!! Thanks for the tips. The offer of 1901 census goes for you too. Cheers - Chris

Hi Chrissie Sorry yet again, I hadn't read your message properly where you said that you'd checked the next page, an address search would only tell you what you already know. I'm not sure but think that the people on the Records board with access to Ancestry have an index to the 1891 census so they might find Harry more easily than Robin Hood if he's trawling through the census discs. Thank you for the offer of 1901 look-up, that is very kind but I can't think of anything at the moment. Heather