Genealogy Chat

I have a birth cert. for Lily Augusta Harris (no father named) in 1874 in the St Clement district of Oxford. The next mention I have is in 1901 (just before the census) with the birth of her first child where her maiden name is now given as Lilian Augusta. (She has taken my grandfather's name by this time but they never married.) 1901 census gives her age as 25 and birth place as Oxford. Emma on this site kindly found me an entry in 1891 for Lilley Harris - right age and birthplace - living in St, Pancras as the niece of Arthur Smith and family. BUT however or wherever I look in 1881 I can't find any of them. Lilian was in Bury (Lancs) from 1901 to her death but I would dearly love to know how/why she came here. Please can anyone suggest anything else I can do??

She is down a Lilly E Harris with mother Sarah and brother James age 10 RG11 1498/93 page 15

Cath, I've found a Lillie E Harris in Oxford St Clement on the 1881 census. Ref: RG11/1498, folio 93, page 15. She's living with Sarah Harris, born 1839 and James T Harris, born 1871. Let me know if you need me to send you the image. Louise

Thanks John & Louise but I'm not sure that this is the right one. I should have said that 'my' Lily's mother was Emily Jane. Thanks again for trying to help. Cath.

Hi Cath What is the address on the birth cert? Sam

Hi Sammy, She was born in the Workhouse on Cowley Road but nobody seems to know what happened to her next. (She wasn't still there in 1881.) Her given names were Lily Augusta Wall Harris. I've tried to see if I could find anything under Wall but with no success. I'd love to find out what happened to her next as I think she was my grandmother. Cath.

Do you mean the name Wall was on the birth cert also?

Almost certainly not her, but try wading through the Lily/Lillians born Oxford, to see what you find, eg: Household: Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability Alfred GREEN Head M Male 30 Bladon, Oxford, England Painter & Glazier Emily GREEN Wife M Female 29 Blenheim Park, Oxford, England Lily A.E. GREEN Daur Female 9 Blenheim Park, Oxford, England Scholar Alfredso W. GREEN Son Male 6 Bladon, Oxford, England Scholar Jessie L. GREEN Daur Female 4 Bladon, Oxford, England Scholar Bethel F. GREEN Son Male 1 Bladon, Oxford, England -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Information: Dwelling The Green Census Place Bladon, Oxford, England Family History Library Film 1341365 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 1511 / 11 Page Number 6

Yes Sammy. Her birth cert. says Lily Augusta Wall Harris daughter of Emily Jane Harris a domestic servant. Her address is also Oxford Workhouse. On all of Lily's children's birth certs. her maiden name is given as Lilian Augusta Harris. I've trawled through 1837 several times and can find no Lilian Augusta Harris's birth in the right place at about the right time so am hoping that this Lily is the right one. No Marriage to my grandfather has been found yet (searching for 7 years!!) so I can't go down that route. Cath.

Nope..Still cant find her! Isn't it infuriating. Did you find her mother in '81/'91/1901 What was Lily/Lilians 'husbands' name, although You do not think they married, what name did she go by? Is this the surname your grandfather had too?

Hi Sammy - you've obviously got the 'bug' too now. I've searched for Emily Jane but can't find her either. As they were in the workhouse I'm presuming that she was unmarried and that maybe Lilian's father was called Wall - another dead end. From 1901 to her death in 1934 she refered to herself as 'wife' and took the surname Graham but then so did her predecessor !!! My grandfather had 8 children with his first wife (married this one) then another child by a second short liason (gave her his surname but didn't marry her) and almost as soon as she died my grandmother came on the scene and they were together for 30 years and had 6 more children. All this was in Bury (Lancs). Now you know the whole story and are probably just as baffled as me!! Cath.

Hi Cath Have you managed to fit Arthur & Caroline Smith (1891 with Lilley) in to your puzzle? I see Caroline was born in Oxford, maybe she was caroline Harris, Emily's sister? Having said that I've not seen a marriage yet. Sam

I've really got you going haven't I Sammy !! I've already had a little look for the Smith connection but haven't got anywhere yet. I've looked for them in 1901 in case they had also moved to Lancashire but no luck. I never knew any of my grandparents but I've got a photo of Lilian and she has always fascineted me. Cath.

LOL Cath! Got me going indeed, whatever makes you think that? I was only looking til MIDNIGHT!!!!! It's good to have something to get your teeth into now and again ;) I've been going all round the houses..literally ;) To see if it would bring me back to Lily. I wondered if Caroline was married by 1881? Perhaps they even had Lily with them back then. Also looked for Caroline & Emily Harris together in 1871, no luck, not ready to give in quite yet though Sam

Hi Sam, It's me again. I've looked at all the Harrises born 1874/6 in Oxford on 1881 (no luck) and I'm just off to see how many Lily/Lilians I can find !! This is a last ditch attempt to find her. Thanks for you help. Cath.

I tried workhouses in Oxford in 1881 & also just putting initials in, but nope! I wondered if she may have been with the Smiths but just missed of when transcribing. I've got lots of straws here Cath....Would you like to clutch one with me??? Sam ;)

If the mother wasn't married I wonder if the father's name was Wall....had one of mine who used the father's name as an extra forename...just a thought. Joan

Hiya Joan I've been down that road, I think Cath has too, the only Wall's we found were brick ones ;)

Many thanks everyone for your replies but it looks like I'll have to ask (and pay) the Oxfordshire Records Office to look at poor law records, baptism certs., etc. to see if they can come up with anything. Thanks again, Cath.