Genealogy Chat

try this site http://www.loyno.edu/~history/journal/1989-0/haller.htm Loads about the whys & whynots

I went to an archive today and looked at the baptisms pre 1837 and as you know these are simple one-liners giving name and parents but in a few cases I noticed there were initials BBI which I had not seen before and was told this means Baby born Illigitimate. Ya learn something new every day !!

Bastardy Bonds, Orders etc are nearly as old as the deed they cover! (LOL). I have found some of mine in the 1600s,being fined for Bastardy ( which was a crime punishable by imprisonment by the way, up till the middle 1800s). I have also found my ancestor, a Vicar, JP, Overseer of the Poor and all round jolly good egg, cheerfully coughing up for no less than SEVEN Bastardy Bonds.This really made me laugh as he would have had to issue the legal papers against himself! He seemed quite fond of the mother of two of the children because he married her off to an Ag Lab on his Estate, who immediately became a Farm Steward. Several of the other children were apprenticed (through the proceeds of the Bond) to Craftsmen on his Estate. History does not record what his long-suffering wife thought of this. Towards the end of the 1800s, Bastardy Orders or Orders of Affiliation, Maintenance Orders etc ceased to be dealt with by the Quarter Sessions and went to Magistrates Courts. Personally, I have found it impossible to trace any MagistratesCourt Records, but I suppose they may be in the County Records Office - I havent looked there being stuck further back. Of all the old ones I have seen, I was surprised at how few of the men denied paternity. I read recently that in country districts, it was in everyone's interests to know who the father of a bastard child was, even if this was never written down anywhere - there were a lot of married women who wanted to know, for obvious reasons and it said that there were 'grades' of bastardy in villages. A girl who had fallen to the local Squire or his son was to be rather admired for her cleverness - she and her child would receive ample provision and a bit of social status too. Couples who had anticipated marriage didnt come in for much flack, neither, oddly, did the girls who dallied with passing soldiers, harvest workers etc, even if they didnt marry. Active disapproval came into play if it was the result of adultery and the girl would be forced, one way or the other, to leave the community. Absolute disgrace and universal disapproval for the child born of incest, although the Author of the book said that many of these children met with unfortunate accidents before they were more than a few weeks old.(Many???Erm, what do you mean, MANY?) Bastardy Orders are fascinating and I for one am very glad our ancestors disapproved of it enough to leave written records! Marjorie

If you go to the local county archive or Famile History Centre you should be able to view 'Bastardy Examinations' which cover 'Examinations in Bastardy before birth' and 'Examinations in Bastardy after birth'. It is also interesting to see how this subject fits in with apprenticeships, vagrancy, paupers and the Poor Laws and cases you should be able to view. Almost obvious that some of these cases go hand in glove with workhouses (http://www.workhouses.org.uk/) which appear to have been terrifying places for people who were committed.

Hi Nell, thanks for responding. The parents were together - as far as I can say for the moment at least - but looks like they never married. Possibly mother died aged about 23. I asked the question because the parents didn't marry so wondered whether the children would be recorded on these records that I've not heard of before. When I can find the records I'll have a look. Might be interesting if they are there - may even be more of them. Jan :-)

Jan It depends on whether or not the parish wanted the father to pay for the child's maintenance. If the mother's family were willing to support her and child, maybe they wouldn't bother. nell

Sorry, can I ask a silly question please. If a child born out of wedlock actually had the birth recorded with the Father's name on the cert, would that record still be in these 'bastardy records' too. Does anyone know. Could answer some questions for me if it was so. Jan

Hi there i have the Bastardy Bonds of my 5 x Grt Grandmother from 1787 sent from East Sussex records Office, they are on two peices of A3 sized paper, you can see were the seal has been done in Wax and a Penny stamp mark. The man who was married had to pay £100 to aquit the parish, i think it means to provide for the child and he gave it to the Parish overseers one being his brother believe it or not. My 4 Grt Grandad had this mans surname as a middle name. So my family on my Grans side all have my 5 x Grt Grans surname, thats the best thing i have found so far doing genealogy. Colette xxxxxxxxxxx

Pickards Pink Pages has some for Warwickshire between 1800 and the 1830s. They're quite informative, if only my lot had been a little less prim and proper!

there are bastardy orders in: http://www(.)a2a(.)org(.)uk (dont forget to remove brackets) Rather than searching for 'Bastardy Orders ' , try typing in a surname instead. Connie

Sheila I never knew that! Thanks, I think I have found something that may help me. nell

I recently ordered some microfilms at my local LDS centre of the parish chest records of the village where my ancestors lived in the early to mid 1800s. These included some bastardy records and I found one for our family by trawling through the pages as I didn't know what I was looking for. Included in these records were general parish accounts and settlement orders. You can do a look up on the Family search site, library, then library catalogue, to see which records are held for the parish that you are interested in. Then check on the 'view film notes' to look at the details of what is included, the years and note the film number to order from the centre. Hope that helps. Sheila

Thanks lesley.... I wasnt looking for anyone in particular, was just interested cos i hadnt heard of them before! I have found quite a lot of info.sites etc online............ (that'll be the housework left again tomorrow!) lol Iwondered if they did them for 1949......:( if they did then I would be on them) What a thought eh!.............made me feel very strange when I realised that. Ann

Yes you do Ann ;)

thanks Sam, I will!..you certainly learn a lot on here dnt you! Ann

Google it Ann... 'bastardy records' including the quotation marks...loads of interesting stuff Sam

I read about these in a previous thread....where can these be accessed please? I have never heard of them before! and do they date from a particular time? Thanks ,Ann