Genealogy Chat

needed again so brought back to the top!

Well Merry Xmas to you all I am now 6 months into my wait for my records. funny how I waited all these years to start my search and now am so impatient for some info at least. My name is all over the net and no-one seems to want to know me feel like giving up b4 even started sorry bit down must be seasonal thing My daughter is gonna make me a grandma in April . The midwives were gobsmacked at the lack of medical info available as they said they had never had a case b4 where both grandmas were adopted Sorry rambling just checking in Merry Xmas and a Very Happy New Year to you all

good morning jess glad to see the thread up to the front again just finished reading it all again, it is a snowy cold morning in canada to-day, and I have been thinking about all that has happened since last year at this time, finding out about my adoption, coming to grips with it t age 62, talking to my new brother , meeting his daughter, so many blessings, so many questions still not and probably will not be answered re all the whys and where fores. learning about the difficult heart problems in the family line showing up in all our birth mothers children, now my brother at age 47 is having to finish working due to his health problem, surgery not possible but even though it is a difficult time for him, we at least have found each other saving like mad to go and visit in person . last not not least a big thankyou to all the folks on this thread who have been so helpful to me and so kind I hope that you all have a merry christmas and a wonderful 2006 to all the members who are still searching regards dorothy canada

Are birth mothers wondering about us this christmas time i wonder.Some maybe, some not, who knows! My Mum did a daft thing on friday~ My little brother (6'3'' but will always be my little bro!) has no desire to trace his roots whatsoever . he is quite happy with what he has, as he says, and has no desire whatsoever to seek out where he came from. Mum and dad had his 2 small children,my neice and nephew, on Friday and something came on the television about adoption.Mum now has alzheimers and suddenly right out of the blue pops out and announces that she and dad are not the childrens REAL grandparents! heaven only knows what was going on in her mind\~ that is not like her at all. My brother is distraut,as he has nothing tabgiable to tell the children, nor any explanation of anything that wee George at 7,can understand. Alice just sort of shrugged it off ( maybe thought nanny was talking a bit daft again as she puts it!) but the little fellow is a worrier. Bless his heart~ he wants to know who is then? , and there is nothing my brother can tell him, nor has any desire to find out. Dad is so upset ~ never believed she would ever blurt out anything like that ( she woulld have never considered it her place, especially knowing that my brother doesnt want to find out. Thats a fine mess you have dropped us into mother!! Seasons greetings to all of those whose lives have been touched by adoption one way or another Jess

nudge for cynthia to read...MOE!x

I havent looked at this thread for ages but now I am prompted to ask for your advice and comments. Sorry, its going to be a long one! A good friend, call her Anna, has a brother, Billy. Their mother we shall call Carol. When Billy was 16, he got his girlfriend, also 16, pregnant. They wanted to marry, but her family would not give permission (big Class Divide) and forbade them from seeing each other. Carol and her husband went to see the girl's parents, to ask that they be allowed to help etc with the upbringing of the child, and were devastated to be told that the child was to be placed for adoption. Carol and her husband contacted Social Services and asked to be allowed to adopt the child and SS said this would be given every consideration. A week or so later, SS rang to say that the girl and her family had moved house, out of the County and that therefore SS could not help Carol and her husband. They went to see a Solicitor, who told them they had absolutely no legal rights, and could only suggest that they employed a private detective. They could not afford to do this. However, the girl managed to get a message to Billy that she had given birth to a baby boy, and was in --- Hospital. (This next bit makes me cry-). The 16 year old lad got on his pushbike and cycled nearly 80 miles to the Hospital, only to find that she had been discharged and naturally the Hospital would not give out her address. All this happened in the late 70s, early 80s. Carol has never stopped mourning her 'missing' Grandson and would desperately like to know that he is well. My involvement came from telling Carol that the Law has now changed to allow Birth Relatives to register to make contact, should the adoptee wish it. She asked me to download the info, which I will do, BUT: Question 1. Suppose the child was not put out to adoption, and the mother in fact kept him? What are our chances of finding his Birth Cert, given that we know his dob and the Hospital. Question 2. If he WAS adopted out, would his original birth certificate reflect this fact? I am sure you can see that there are two completely different routes to follow here, depending on whether or not he was adopted. I have not yet suggested to Carol that he might NOT have been adopted - this doesnt seem to have occurred to her. How much should I get involved with this? I can tell you that they are a lovely family, he will have five half-siblings waiting to jump on him, Aunts, Uncles, Cousins etc, and a Granny who wants to tell him that she has always loved him, even though she hasn't ever had the chance to meet him. I am desperate not to rush in where Angels fear to tread, etc, so anything that I DO do, will be very cautious. I would so much appreciate your input, thoughts and advice on this. Olde Crone

Ok Crone, given that you know his date of birth and place of birth,,,, You can probably find his original birth reg. If he WAS adopted 'officially' his birth cert (original one SHOULD have Adopted on the end of it, added at the time of adoption. Still the best way for your friend to go would be to to call, then back up in writing ,to the social services dept that dealt with the supposed adoption IN HIS ORIGINAL NAME. I did the very same , having my half brothers, lets call him Sam,birth cert that said adopted. Although they couldn't tell me anything about the case , what the lady kept on saying was this ''yes it (the B/C)says adopted but i can't see a file ''. What she couldn't tell me was that he WAS adopted BUT by his mothers subsequent husband, so wasn't given for adoption, although adopted, if you see the difference. The fat that the familiy as a whole moved away suggests to me ( i may be wrong ) that they may have kept the child and raised it as their own ( the parents that is) what will have only changed slightly is the girls name if she eventually married, and she may be possible to trace. What i did, with the help of Sheila Molineux, was , with Sams original birth cert, traced his mothers subsequent marriage ( she had quite an unsual name ) and actually wrote and asked her did she know who Sam become when he was adopted~ Then she wrote back and told me the story.

Thanks Jess, for your very prompt and helpful reply. I think we need to get his original BC then definitely, to see if he was adopted - I take your point that her parents might have officially adopted him, or that the girl's subsequent husband might have adopted him, but there will still be an Adoption File surely? In which case I will give Carol the info regarding her new rights to place a 'Contact' letter on his file (but a bit pointless, if he's been adopted in family, he is hardly going to ever want to access his file, is he?) Depending on what we find on his BC - if he doesnt appear to have been adopted, for instance - what would you all advise, regarding the possibility of making contact with him? Carol SAYS that it will be enough for her to know he is alive and well, but I am not so sure! I think she is hoping for a wonderful reunion deep down. I havent yet said that there are 'ways' of tracing people yourself - don't want to open that Pandora's Box until I am sure in my mind what is best to do. Olde Crone

Crone, if he was adopted into the family into which he was born , there will be no file, They dont tend to bother with things like social work reports if it is say, a husband of the mother that is the adopter. Most of the paper work in an adoption file is reports about the circumstances of the birth and the suitibility of the 'potential parents' to adopt. Do you think you know enough to trace his original birth ( the girls surname is a good start and where. especially if it is a slightly unsual surname and the year) if he appears to have been brought up by the family , find out all you possibly can before taking steps to contact him. He may be completely oblivious!

Hi Olde Crone, First thing I would suggest is to search for the BM, if you have her full name we could take a look on 1837 for a possible marriage for her, (hope its not to common a name) I could do a house search on her residence to see who is living there to see if there are any children at home over 18, however, this is dependant on whether she has stayed married and if the children are still living at home. This is still a possible option anyway. as your friends son could at least find out if the child was adopted or not if he had a good realtionship with his ex.( I coulf look for her parents but I doubt if you will be given any onfo by them). Let me know if there is anything I can do to help. Sheila

Jess Thanks again - yes, I have the girl's name and an exact date and place of birth. I will speak with Anne and see what she wants me to do, but I think the original BC is a very good place to start! And yes, I am aware that all this may be completely unknown to the grandson, so will do some snooping about, should the BC yield any results, before we make any moves. Olde Crone

There is every adoptees best friend.... Happy new year Sheila!! jess x

Sheila Thankyou very much for your kind offer to help. Billy has had no contact whatsoever with the mother of his son since his fruitless visit to the hospital. The whole family were 'frightened off' by the attitude of Social Services and the Solicitor at the time, who made it very clear that they would be breaking the law if they attempted to trace this child and I think, in their minds at least, they will still be doing 'something wrong' if they try to contact him or even attempt to find him. I will speak with Carol tomorrow night about what she REALLY wants to do, and depending on her reply, I may PM you, Sheila - sorry to be so cloak-and-dagger, but it is not MY secret to tell and I dont think I should put these people's real names on this post. Thankyou both, Jess and Sheila, for your interest in this - I somehow have a feeling that it will be easy to find him - hope that doesnt put the kybosh on everything. Olde Crone

Hi Jess, A Very Happy New Year to you and all you family as well :O) Sorry I have not been around so much for the last couple of weeks but glad to see your keeping up the good work :O)) Just want to wish all our fellow adoptees a Wonderful New Year, and the Best of luck with their continued searches and new found relationships!! Cheers Sheila

Hi Old Crone, No problem, feel free to PM me any time, speak to Carol though and see where she wants to go from here, and assure her that the attitude of Social Services has come full circle from when she dealt with them int he later 70's. It could be an idea though to look at the childs birth entry on 1837 you may find his original ref number is crossed through and a new one entered (not always though) this would indicate that an adoption has taken place, either the baby has been placed with a new family or his BM kept him and her new husband /partner has formally adopted him. It may be an idea to order a copy of this anyway, was he named as the father on this? could help his case although given the familes attitude they may have left this blank. Ask Carol to speak also with her son regarding all this ,as if it does come down to contacting SS he may have more rights to apply for them to make contact. Sheila

Hm! Could not get Carol today, so spoke to her daughter Anne. To my GREAT surprise, Carol already has a copy of his BC. I don't know until I speak to her, exactly when she got this copy, but it definitely does NOT mention anything about adoption! Sadly, the surname is as common as muck - not quite Smith, but almost as bad! On a hunch, I looked on Friends Reunited, and am pretty sure I have found Birth Mother - right age, right school. I shall hold this info close to my chest until I speak to Carol although I am pretty sure she would not wish to contact BM. Billy wants to 'Let Sleeping Dogs Lie'. I asked Anne what his reaction would be if his son turned up on the doorstep, would he reject him? Oh no, said Anne, its a bloke thing I think, he doesn't want Mum to do anything because he has 'dealt with the unhappiness and put it away'. So, for now I am going to find the information about the new law and give that to Carol, and see where we go from there. Thankyou Jess and Sheila for your help and interest - I will let you know what happens - I am interested to know WHEN Carol got the copy BC, as they are adamant that the boy was adopted out. Olde Crone

Hi Again Old Crone, It may be best to talk again with Carol and Billy and see what they want to do next. It would be hard for Billy if Carol goes ahead and is able to trace him, if he does not want contact, although he may come around if he knows he has been found. Did the child have a middle name if not it may be still easier to try and find a marriage for his BM and contact her. Let them mull things over and decide where they want to go from here. I would be curious to know when they obtained the birth cert though. Best Wishes Sheila

Hi Folks, Just wanted to check something out a fellow adoptee has just ordered her original cert from Southport and has been told that she will have to wait 4-6 for this is this normal? I was able to get mine locally and my sisters were sent out no problems, just wondered if anyone else had to wait this long as GRO seem to be operating normally at the moment. Sheila p.s Happy New Year to you All!!

4-6 'what' sheila? lol i cant see why it cant be applied for in the normal; way, 7 days or so from the GRO

Hi Jess, Thats what I thought, didn't think it was 'normal' reckon its being delivered by a snail and a sedated snail at that ;O) Sheila