Genealogy Chat

You are all stars to stick with me, all this began on Tuesday with the letter arriving from the carer, it feels like we've been living 'it' for weeks. The Salvation Army sounds a good option, and all these messages have been forwarded to my BIL, I will be sure to let you know as soon as anything happens Thank you all Sam

Hi Sammy, We recently had to check on a power of attorney issue for my father in law. We had been under the impression that one was made and had paperwork to state that one had been issued. However, we went to see a solicitor about this who ran a search for I think it was about £25. It turned out that the paperwork never went thru to the courts and there was no record. Therefore it was invalid. Brother in law had used this power over his father to 'borrow' money which is now living in Australia quite happily with his family and mother in law. His father now lives with us. Sorry to waffle on there. Anyhow, it is worth having a solicitor run a check just in case. Best wishes Jules

Another thought Sammy - but a legal thought - if BIL's Mum has an Enduring Power of Attorney this should be lodged with the Court of Protection - might be worth a telephone call. I do know that if someone (i.e. relative etc) is granted an Enduring Power of Attorney then a copy of the Enduring Power of Attorney should be sent to all family members. You must really find out who sent the original letter - your BIL's father and BIL himself are next of kin which obviously with the situation as it is means BIL is next of kin. You can do no more really until you find out (a) who wrote the letter (b) does Mother know anything about letter? I am afraid the only way is to turn up on the doorstep or try speaking to neighbours (with an inventive story) i.e. you are trying to trace people who used to live at that address (people are normally only to willing to gossip) and you need say nothing about any family history,

The Salvation Army does '' ...act as intermediaries until such time as trust is established between the parties ... '', and if the person does not want to have contact, then the SA would have to respect the person's wishes and would tell the enquirer that and, hopefully, the reason. Joy (SA employee)

It MIGHT be worth while taking a slightly different tack when he next rings SS. Ok, he know they are not going to tell him a lot, but if he says that he is concerned as her son, estranged or not that they assure him that ' she has the services she requires'. THEN ask direct questions... Does she have say, Meals on wheels or a carer to cook her a hot meal every day. Does she have the nursing care she needs... He might like to 'hint' (irrespective of his intention to do so) that if other services are needed that he might be prepared to help. Understandably he might not be able to or want to (and there is no reaon why he should) BUT .... They might reveal a nugget that will give him an idea of how she really is. 'oh, she doesn't need nursing care/Meals on wheels...' might be the reply waffling now! jess

I copied this from the www.salvationarmy.org site 'To relieve the anxiety of enquirers, by assuring them of our concern and the full support of our service To trace relatives in order to advise them a family member desires contact To open a line of communication between an enquirer and the person sought To act as intermediaries until such time as trust is established between the parties Where appropriate, to seek to resolve the difficulties which brought about the break in the relationship' You can find the nearest one by typing in the area

A very, very difficult situation all round. I think that there has to be an intermediary of some kind, whether it be clergy, social services or doctor. Joy

Sam, Having monitored this thread for a few days, I felt time was right for a response. I am so sorry for the anguish this situation is causing your BIL. The question 'why now' is sure to be raised - but until 'now' it hasn't been possible to find his Mother. Realising there are potential sensitivities all round, my inclination would be to have an 'independent third party' visit his Mother and gauge the situation and tailor their conversation accordingly. A vicar, as mentioned by Ann, would seem to be a suitable candidate - however, I would recommend that your BIL has a discussion and briefs him personally rather than trying to do it 2nd hand. A GP is a clear next option, but as you say, they're awfully busy people - not that vicars aren't, but it's kind of different. A thought. If BIL's Mother is living in her own home, there must be some doubt over whether she has a full-time carer (ie one that sleeps over) - if her illness were so debilitating, would she not be in residential care of some sort? Some bad thoughts. She may be so full of guilt about abandoning her only child that she cannot face seeing him. This can be overcome, I believe. However, if BIL's re-appearance would remind her of a particularly unhappy (even traumatic) period of her earlier life, this will be harder to handle. Anyway, do keep us posted Sam - we're rooting for you all! Take care, Jane

Thank you Christopher, I agree about BIL mental health too. My sister just rang me, BIL spoken to SS in Aberystwyth again today, they were very nice apparently, but he is still none the wiser. They said their hands are tied. Sam

Just been reading al the replies with interest i don't see why he couldn't make an appointment with his doctor for this reason, at the end of the day this is going to be affecting your Bil mental health which is all covered by the doctor. I wish him all the best of luck with this. Personally i'd have been in my car already and beeen to the address but like you say everyones different.

FRIDAY A few more thoughts, I have been made aware that Social Services are not some saintly organisation and are acting on behalf of their patient/client whatever, and I think Isabel maybe right, in that I cannot assume they would be prepared to pass on a letter. Also, after to chatting to Joan Allan last night, she suggested my BIL see his OWN doctor, maybe he would look into the situation, what do you think? Would that be considered a valid reason to make an appointment with your doctor? I know their time is precious. Sam

Sammy I have been reading all the messages giving bil support and I agree but I have to say Ive never heard of ss sending messeges especial over something as sensetive as This 1 If his mother is ill surely she would want to make her peace with her only child. 2 The carer supposedly wrote on his mothers behalf but why didnt she sign the letter or let her feelings be known. 3 Does mrs jones live there. I think Iwould be tempted to visit the address and let someone else go and ask for the mother by name and if mrs Jones answers the door she should be wearing a badge with name and company she represents best of luck keep us posted Isabel

Just a wild thought, but the 'carer' mentioned that she had been in hospital when she recieved his first letter, so I assume someone (the carer?)must have taken it in to her. Would it be worth ringing the nearest hospital to where she lives and asking if she is still in the hospital 'or has she gone home now'. I have done this with an aunt who I found out had been ill and they quite helpfully told me she had been discharged.

I wish him all the luck, Sammy. What a dreadful and tactless reply. Thank goodness he has you and your sister to help him. Glenys x

There is no telephone number, probably ex-directory. Ann, we are assuming as SS will not talk then it would be a waste of time trying to find out who her GP is, probably same patient confidentiality. SS will not confirm if BIL's mother is ill, is terminally ill, has carers, if care is adequate...or anything. They will not even confirm they have any contact with her at all. They just say they cannot discuss the matter with him His mother must have instructed them not to reveal anything, he can ask all he likes, but if they wont tell him then he's powerless. I agree it would be a good idea to send a letter via social services, if they are willing to pass it on. Sam

Sammy I think the letter is a good idea but has he considered the idea that someone suggested of telephoning? It would give him (or someone) the chance to see if she answers the phone and how she sounds. If he's not wanting to phone himself them someone else could and say they were doing a college project or something on something like shopping in the area. Perhaps that way he could establish how ill she is. Still can't understand this 'new' patient confidentiallity business. My nana is in Glos which is I believe the same area as the SS people your BIL spoke to today. My mum is in NZ and just a month ago they were happily talking to her about my Nana's care. Even phoned her in the middle of the night in NZ to ask where the spare front door keys were! Regardless of whether they can discuss his mother's case or not he should ask them to investigate the letter that was sent, surely the Wales SS don't condone that sort of response. Keep going, and let us know what happens Karen

Thanks for update Sammy,, he must be feeling awful,,,but why dont he write c/o the social services who have her details ,,asking them to forward it ..to her,,he may also like to include a 'Family photo'of himself and the ''grandaughter'',,and thank her, because if it wasnt for her,he would not have his daughter,,,and to show her what a fine person he has grown into,, it may seem like a bit of emotional blackmail but when clutching at straws anything got to be worth a go,, if he puts his letter in the same envelope, as a letter to SS asking if they would give it to her ;but not his address then they surely will have to make sure the ''Mother' gets it..as they have no return address for him,but include it on the one to his 'mother' Kay

Hi Sam I just got in..........I think your idea of another letter, explaining the facts.....+ especially mentioning the grandaughter is good. Could Soc. Services deliver it to her + make sure she got it? Did BIL consider her GP?. OR what about a minister of her church? OK , he has been rejected, I know this must be SO very hard but what has he got to lose? ALSO.....couldn't Soc. Services check up to make sure she IS being looked after properly + that she is really ill? + there's nothing sinister going on. Regards Ann x

My BIL went to our local SS today, to discuss this face to face. The patient confidentiality is due a recent change in the law, it seems that prior to the change they would have taken every case on it's own merit and decided if they could reveal information. Now it's just a blanket rule, I suppose they might contact the person and ask if they may discuss their situation with a relative, but in this case even if they had asked her, it's obvious she would refuse. So, a dead end, I dont think he could take a long journey and more rejection, especially as she could be very ill. He just doen't want to upset her any more than she already is, and iI can understand that. I personally thinks it's worth another go with writing a letter. Reasuring her that he's the only one who knows where she is, no one else in his family knows he's even interested in finding his mother. Also, tug at her heartstrings, BIL has a 7yr old daughter with my sister, this woman has a grandchild. Explain that the letter from the carer has absolutely devastated him, and he's so sorry she's ill, but he still wants to meet her, and ask her please to not deprive him of that. I don't know what else to suggest, I know some of you would jump in your cars and take the risk of turning up at her door, but everyones different aren't they.... I don't think he's ruling that out completely, but he's so scared. Sam

Thank you Margaret. Hi Ann My sister & BIL sent an email to SS in Aberystwyth last night, as you say, they need to move quickly. He is considering a further letter to his mother, although I think they have asked that the email be printed off and a copy passed on to her, at least if SS have it, it should actually be given directly to his mother, bypassing any carers. Will let you all know, I bet they just get an automated respose to begin with, then it's Bank Holiday weekend :(