Genealogy Chat

Hi Sam, I have been following your thread for some time now and feel great sympathy for your BIL in what is such a sensitive and personal matter. Social Services are so tied up in red tape that I feel they will not be able to help particularly because their duty lies with his mother who is their client and not with BIL. However, the Salvation Army seems a very sensible route to go down, as they have no sides in this matter and can deal with it in a sensitive and supportive manner for both your BIL and his mother. Also his mother may have got over the shock and changed her mind about seeing him by now. Also, your BIL could have a FREE half hour consultation under the Legal Help Advice and Assistance Scheme with a solicitor who deals in family and children matters. He could ask them to contact his mother's doctor for a Medical Report which at least would tell him what is actually wrong with her. He should also get advice of his legal standing regarding his mother's care and also in the event of her death. Good luck to you and BIL in whichever way you decide to turn. Kathyx P.S. Having read Michelle Pringle's reply further down this page, I agree the vicar from her local church rather than the Salvation Army would be best to pay a visit to his mother, after BIL has explained the circumstances to him. If she is nearing the end of her life, she may well want to see someone from the church to pray for her, etc., and hopefully also her son.

Can I just add something else. I too had one like this in my family, a cousin. It took 30 or more years before he looked for his mother but he did. Found her, my one advice to him was don't look back, don't think about what happen and blame anyone. It was between your mother and father not you. Now it was my mum's brother god bless them, but they would stick together. My dad was pleased for him and gave few clues where to look for his mother as my parents had my cousin live with them before I was born they were close. Now my brother can remember she wrote wanting to see the boys but they were never told as by this time they had moved back with their father. I have now met Auntie and I don't blame anyone. If any think I feel so sorry for all involved. How does he know his father was not violent he would have been to young. If he's only heard one side then its possible there was more to it. But he does have to let her know that her address will be kept secret, he does not blame her only wants to get to know her and for her to get to know her granddaughter. If only we could wave wands. All the best Irene

I've just got back from a holiday and read this whole thread through. As a 'fiction' it would be intriguing - a good (if haunting) read - but to know it's fact... I'm just glad I haven't had to begin to face such a situation. One thing that you've mentioned twice.. the stillbirth. The second time, it was while BiL's dad was there? And he's known to have been violent to her during the marriage? Has anyone said what caused the stillbirth? If it was the result of that encounter, one can see why she'd be afraid of any contact which might carry a risk of the dad getting to know her whereabouts. Don't think I can add anything useful - apart from caring about the outcome - but would add my voice to those who advocate being careful-but-persistent. best wishes - Christine

Sammy I've been following this thread since the beginning and would just like to add my bit. I think your BIL would certainly be best off seeking the help of a third party. I know the Salvation Army has been suggested but personally I would try with the local priest/vicar first. Mainly because he may have prior knowledge of the lady in question. Even if he doesn't I would've thought it would be much less of a shock to her to see her local priest/vicar walking down her garden path than a stranger from the SA. I'm sure that if you spoke to the local vicar/priest they would do this. We did this when we were seeking out info on one of our sisters who we knew had been adopted and christened as a catholic in a local town. We contacted the two local catholic churches who ran searches. One of them said they were really sorry but they couldn't find anything in their records. The other said they'd look and do what they could and then totally changed tact when contacted again, which made us dig a little deeper and we found her.(They protested a little too loudly) Sorry for waffling but my point being that the church was still the best place to go for first point of contact. I also think your BIL should set out a plan of action and work his way through it ie contact vicar, contact CAB/solicitor, have someone check out house for comings and goings and ultimately visit himself, but he should be prepared for the worst that she genuinely doesn't want contact and if that is the case to be able to say to himself well I did everything I could now I have to let it go. I think he should also bear in mind that if she was so afraid of his father that she didn't dare divorce him for fear of him finding out where she is that it is a genuine fear. Maybe he could reiterate to the third party that he has very little contact with his father, that his father is unaware that he is even looking for his mother never mind found her and under no circumstances would he ever tell him where she is. Hope this helps Michele

Nudged for Smiley Sammy, out of shameless nosiness - don't want the thread to disappear down a hole while she is away. Marjorie

nugged

I was going to nudge it up too!! lol If you manage to get online sam, there's lots of folks on here thinking about you + BIL. Take care Ann x

Karen. BIL was his mothers child by her husband. He went to live (aged 3)with his paternal grandparents when his father separated from the mother. Ann

hi Sammy, Nothing to add to the excellent advice you have been getting on here, except to say I do hope that your BiL gets a good result with this. wishing him all the very best in his quest to see his Mother. Ann Glos

Hi Sammy, Just got back from my holidays and have been reading your thread. The first thing I would say is was the letter from the carer on letter headed paper? would Social Services be able to tell you if this person was actually an allocated carer for her? you need to confirm who this person is, and if they are telling the truth before you go any further. Have you thought of contacting a neighbour to see if you can find out anything,maybe they would know what sort of health she was in, there are so many possible scenario's at the moment, BIL mother may not want to see him, she may be scared of seeing him and re-living the past, or she may even have written the letter herself to put him of making contact. If she is ill you need to establish what with, for BIL peace of mind, but also you could state to SS you are concerned that this may be a heriditarty problem (also if he decides to go through his GP this would be an excuse for his GP to phone BMothers). Think he will have to try and be a little more patient till you can get some more information. If she is very ill, it may be necessary to take a more gentle approach to try and get the answers he is looking for. One thing though, time gives people selective memories he may not ever get the answers he's looking for :O( their will be his BF version of events his BM 's and somewhere in the middle the truth. Just tell him to make no judgements till he has all the facts, most of the people that have given him information are bound to have been biased. Let me know if you need a look up for his neighbours details. I wish you all the Luck in the World with this search, and hope he has a happy outcome. Best Wishes Sheila

So many possible scenarios, so many possible results - the one certain thing is that there are so, so many people 'out here' thinking of your BIL and his family and hoping against hope for a good outcome. Liz

Sammy wouldn't the husband still be next of kin if they have never divorced?MOE!

Hita sam I`m with the rest of them tell BiL to try to find out more this happened to me with an aunt who was very close all my life I wish I had stood up more tell him to keep at it XX Babs

keep chins up you will win in end hopfully

Nudging for Sammy and hope she's managing a smile. K. x

I agree with Val from Exeter. Go and say who you are, and ask to see her. Good luck. Susan

HI sAMMY. I have just read all the thread BIL should just go and have a look. my father left when i was 3 months old when i was 21 i found out where he lived got a friend to ring him & ask for a meeting he agreed that was the only time i ever saw him he told me my mum had not let him keep in contact other than to rewrap the presents he had sent my 4 siblings & I every year as he had another family by then I chose not to keep in contact with him even though he wanted to.25yrs on looking for my family tree I now realise how silly that was,tell BIL to go have a look even if she wont meet him he will always remember that he saw her and has a face for the name my father died 6 yrs ago but Iwill always have him with me now its something no one can take away or alter GOOD LUCK!!!! B.J.

JUNE 4th 2005 Thank you for all your messages while I was away, you're all lovely, and trying for to keep me on the front page too :) I rang my sister as soon as we got home, but no news, other than they sent one more letter on Tuesday. here it is.... Dear Mum I can say that now, because I know it’s you. I am still reeling from the letter, telling me never to write to you again, and also telling me I had “set you back” by contacting you. Your carer asked for you to be left in peace, for the time you have left. That final statement has left me absolutely devastated. I was not prepared for this at all; it now seems to me that I have nothing to lose, so I have decided to write just once more. Getting that letter has made me even more determined to meet you, I am so sorry you are ill, and I have no idea what you are suffering from, but I still want to see you. Is it that you don’t want to see me? Or you don’t want me to see you? I now know the timing of my contact was not good, but I promise you I will cope with anything, I also want to reassure you, that it is me & me alone that knows of your whereabouts. I have had little to do with my father over the years; my grandparents brought me up. My father’s new partner made it clear to him that I was not welcome, he duly obliged and I was taken to my grandparents flat, I still live there part time, helping to care for them. The weekends are spent with my partner, R****. She has 2 children and we also have a daughter together. Yes, you are a grandmother too, our daughter is called A**** and she will be 8yrs old in August. I’m trying to fit the last 33yrs into a letter, but it’s not working. I don’t care about the past, there are no recriminations on my part, and there never were any, life is just too short. Please, please reconsider; I want so much to see you. I am so scared I will be visiting a grave instead of you. The address at the top is R**** house, you can write to me there, and I have included my mobile telephone number, you can leave a message, or ring me after 7pm weekdays, anytime over the weekend. I cannot bear the thought that this is it… It’s not the ending I imagined Love always Your Son That would have reached BIL's mother by Wednesday, and as yet they have heard nothing back. She may just ignore it, he has said it's one last attempt and although you've all given very valuable and much-needed advice, above all he does not want to push himself on her. So he is saying he will not contact her directly again. Is this a 'man' thing? I think we women would get angry and just head on up there, without really stopping to think, but my husband agrees with my BIL, in that if his mother tells him yet again she does not want to see him, or have anything to do with him, then he will just have to draw a line under it. There is only so much rejection a person can take. My sister said BIL has been very depressed the last couple of days. I have passed on the comments about the local vicar, he is a bit confused as to whether to go that route, although I did say regardless of someone being religious or not, I think you would listen to what a member of the church has to say, and hopefully not be rude enough to dismiss him/her out of hand. So the story goes on, with no conclusion at present. Am I allowed to assume 'No News is Good News'? Bye for now Ever the optimist Sam BTW.. Nothing more from SS although they have had another email from BIL, asking amongst other things if his mother does not wish contact on any level would it be possible for him to informed of her death, as & when it happens - this also brought NO response from SS! The 'Carers' letter was not on headed paper, just an old fashioned lined writing pad's paper, looked like the writing of an elderly person. And the stillborn baby DID belong to BIL's father 100% sure of that, as for contacting him about it, maybe she thought he was entitled to know she was carrying his child.

Sammy. His letter sounds really good- just enough to make her wonder about the grandaughter and other bits of his life. He sounds like a very sensative chap that will be easily hurt - and nothing can stop him hurting.Rejection IS hard but knowing you have done all you possibly can ....well, if the final 'NO' does come, at least he can say he put his heart and soul into trying. Is no news good news?- not sure.I would say if she hasn't replied within a week she probably wont.He needs to set himself a 'point' at which he will give up hoping, hard though that is.If she replies after that, then it is a bonus. I have everything crossed for him as it sounds like 'luck' is about all he has. Jess x

Thank you Jess, good point about setting himself a cut-off regarding all this. That in itself will be difficult but, I too, think this has to be done, in order to get on with the rest of his life. My BIL is sensitive, he has only just come to terms with the fact that this did not go the way he had imagined. He thought his mum had stayed away because of his dad and that when he found her she would welcome him with open arms. Her reaction has made him feel absolutely worthless, my sister is doing all she can to reassure him, but at this present moment.. that is not enough. Sam