Genealogy Chat

Help and advice desperately needed. My brick wall gets higher and dearer. Ggrandad John Wilson b.1857 in Shotton Colliery. I have his birth cert naming John Wilson and Margaret (formerly Tinkler) as his parents. I have them all on the 1861 Census,in Durham, giving place of birth for John senior as Easington, Yorks. (found that), and Margaret as Jarrow, Durham in 1822. Their eldest is 20 in 1861. Have them on the 1851 census, but not listed in 1841 in Durham. The marriage of John and Margaret is costing me a packet. There is one listing of Margaret Tinkler marrying at the same time and place (Houghton le Spring), but not to each other. Then assumed Margaret had been married previously. I noted all the possible surnames from all the pages listing Margaret Tinkler and cross referenced them to any John Wilson marriages. Ordered all possible certs, but GRO say none of them match. Where now. All ideas gratefully received. Many thanks Rob

Rob, What years prior to 1857, have you checked? Sam

Rob, This what you're lookiing for. Marriage-- 1839;Houghton le Spring County Durham..June 1/4 Wilson John, Tinkler Margaret, Gro Ref--page 24----volume 139. kay.

Hi Sam, I have checked all the male surnames that Margaret Tinkler could have married, then checked Margaret -new surnames against John Wilson marriages from 1837 to 1842. Hi Kim, If only it were that easy! Thats the first cert I sent for, but John didn't marry Margaret that day according to GRO. Hoping they had made a mistake, I also asked Sunderland Reg Office, with the same reply. Rob

Rob Have you been to reg office in Durham??? mistakes have been known to happen ,,, have you checked any parish registeres for Houghton le Spring?????? kay;;

Have you the birth certificate of the eldest child? JUst to check that Mary was his mother. Also where was he born. If he was 20 in 1861 census then where he was born should be where they are in 1841, well hopefully anyway! Rachel

Do you just have the one birth cert? (For John born 1857?). I was just thinking, maybe you should get the cert for the oldest known child too, just to make sure they were all born to the same mother.... It's just that my hubby's ancestor 'married' two ladies who's details looked virtually identicle on the various census returns, but they were too different 'wives'. I use the term loosely, as he didn't marry either of them - being married formerly to someone else at the time!! Good Luck! Sarah

Rob, The 1839 marriage that Kay found for you, where did you get these details? Was it from the LDS/Free BMD sites, or was it from 1837 online? Sam

Hi Kay, Houghton-le-Spring records are kept at Sunderland and both S'land and GRO say John married someone other than Margaret that day. Hi Rachel/Sarah, More cash, easy come, easy go. I'll order elder siblings cert. Thanks, Rob

Glad to hear you are made of money!!! lol Sarah

Hi Sam, I got the info from both 1837 and Ancestry, cross referencing the other names on the same registry page. All the best Rob

Yes Rob,,meant Sun'land, Kay,,,

Rob, Have you give thought of any other name bar Margaret,,,,??on the marriage,?if you state to gro ,reg office her full name ,as Margaret to John they will not issue a cert ,even if the right one as you quote margaret,,but this they will not tell you,,, Kay..

If you can't get any further with this, I would be tempted to order the marriage certificate online from the GRO, just giving one of the names. Sometimes the GRO are wrong. Both names definitely appear on the same page and it would be a coincidence if they are both on the same page of marriage entries, and on the birth certificate you have, and then did NOT marry each other. Could Margaret have been her middle name that she always used and on the marriage certificate her full name was given. If so and, say her name on the marriage certificate was ???? Margaret Tinkler, then the record office would say the marriage WAS to someone else. Kath. x

Just had a horrid thought on this one. You haven't actually had sight of this wrong certificate, have you? It might be worth getting the certificate, to establish the actual date and church and then having a look at the original register. If two couples married on the same day, it is not beyond the bounds of reason that the vicar carefully wrote out all the details in advance, muddling the brides' names, then if all the parties could not read, they might not notice the error. I realise that this sounds a trifle far fetched, but it is very strange that you do have a match that isn't. I have certainly seen instances where the vicar has muddled up bride and groom's names in the original and have often wondered whether the GRO version was correct or not.

Hi all, Sorry for the delay replying, 'er indoors dragged me away to our caravan for a rainy weekend. I think I will order the cert. for John Wilson from GRO 'cos on checking the 1851 census, his eldest son was born in Houghton-le-Spring, which is where GRO and Sunderland Reg Office say John never married Margaret - it just seems a bit co-incidental. The 1851 census also says his sister in law was staying with them, one Alice Linkley, which seems close enough to Tinkler for there to be a transcription error. Having said that, I can't find a marriage for John to Margaret Linkley either. Many thanks for the suggestions, Rob

have looked on bmd and both names are listed as marring the same quater so think you should order the cert of one name not both and see what comes houghton le spring vol 24 page 139

Rob, Have emailed you direct Kim