Genealogy Chat

Some got such harsh sentences, and others literally got away with murder...... In 1815 Hubby's ancestor was stabbed with a six inch knife in the stomach. The soldier who did this was chased and caught by the local publican when it was found that he still had the knife in his pocket and he and it were all covered in her blood. The victim was able to tell the doctor that the man was a soldier from the artillery. At the trial the soldier was acquitted, because the victim was a prostitute.........the jury said that a man could not be held responsible for his actions when ''in a passion''.......... Hubby says we needed all the soldiers we could get because of the Napoleonic Wars........ Oh, well that's alright then!! Sarah

HOW I FOUND OUT ABOUT MY CRIMINAL RELATIVE He was in Broadmoor on the 1881 census. I contacted www murderfiles com who were able to tell me he had committed a murder in 1862. I then found him in the Gloucester Gaol Register index which is on the Gloucs. Records Office website and they sent me a photocopy of his entry. This had the fact that his trial was held in the winter assizes, so I was able to look up the details at Kew and get a report of the trial in The Times on microfilm at the London Metropolitan Archives as well as a local newspaper from Cirencester Library. nell

Chris Thanks for the tip but none of mine would be mentioned in Old Bailey Trials as they were all from the Manchester / Salford areas and Ireland. I'll have a look for trials around here. Thanks any. Lynne

Brenda I just wish I had found something so interesting in my family! The worst I've got so far is a couple of illegitimate births. Mind you I'm only back to 1800. How do you all find these amazing stories anyway?? Lynne

Hi Brenda, Welcome to the club ... since I found my ggggrandparents on the convict vessel to Aust I have become addicted to the Old Bailey records - have read some amazing things. Mine got death converted to life in the penal colonies for lifting a few peticoats and a mat. As a kid of 12 the the grampy got a flogging and 6mths in the can for stealing cheese .. justice?. cheers Laurie

Marjorie So your rellies would nowadays be having ASBOs served on them! I forgot to mention a gt x lots grandfather and his son and son-in-law got done for stealing firewood from Lord Stowell's grounds in 1830. I bet they needed it more than he did. Up the workers! nell

And in 1601, my ancestors are being sternly instructed to keep the peace with their neighbours (their in-laws) and to stop throwing rubbish over their fence! And another POSSIBLE relation, James Holden and his cousin Fish Fish,(yep, really) are being indicted at Preston Assizes for stealing...erm....fish! Marjorie

Me too! I have one direct ancestor who was transported for stealing measuring instruments, and he had 2 brothers transported and numerous cousins...........I am pefectly lawabiding Honestly truly sandie

Brenda My poor chap apparently was funny in the head after 'ill-treatment' (I think this means being knocked about) at the age of 8 by a farmer he was working for. Poor chap. He was one of the first intake in Broadmoor in 1863 and died in 1908. I want to find out more about his life there, though I think it was probably quite grim. On the 1881 census he is there with Richard Dadd who painted 'The fairy feller's masterstroke'. Nell

Trouble is, Nell, I think I've got one of those as well. He was a butler, about our age, who was nutty on a girl young enough to be his daughter. She left her position, moved away and married. He followed her to her new home, tried to persiade her to run away with him to America, and when this did not work, shot her and tried to commit suicide. He was sentenced to death, but they decided he was unhinged and sent him to Broadmoor instead - perhaps he knew your relative?! His wife stood by him, saying his fits of madness were due to his being shot in the head by a former employer! His name and birthplace mean there are two candidates for this man. He's either a first or second cousin of the family. Again, I'm hoping that local newspapers will shed a little light on the subject: the Times only concentrates on his wife. And there I was thinking that all the family were decent law-abiding citizens, like my grandfather!

What r u worried about? Well pleased to find and ancestor in the 1300's explained why the family moved north. Until I found the court records - he was a group of young tofs who battered a chap to death and legged it leaving his servant with the body!! Question - is this why I'm a youthworker 700 years later - doing penance????

Brenda How shocking. I am appalled that I have been in the company of someone whose genes are polluted with this vice! As you know I had a relative (not a direct ancestor, I hastily point out) who went bonkers and cut his pregnant fiancee's throat. He spent over 40 years in Broadmoor poor chap, and all there is to show for it is a photocopy of the result of the inquest after his death. nell

Try not to feel too bad Brenda, I've recently discovered that one of my ancestors, who I thought was a respectable village blacksmith, went on to become a Highwayman who was eventually hanged at Newgate (although no mention of him of their website). His only redeeming feature being that he did sometimes give some of his 'takings' to the needy poor, sounds a bit like a modern day (1760s) Robin Hood! Carolyn

Pat We only see snapshots of our ancestors in censuses and on bmd certificates. People could go into the army or navy, be in prison, emigrate, work round the country and if there are no children to highlight the movements, you may be none the wiser. I have preconceived ideas of my ancestors, then a little scrap of extra information like this knocks all my treasured notions on the head.

Hi Kim It would be nice to think of Maria as more sinned against than sinning, but I'm not convinced. In 1871, her husband is living cheek by jowl with all Maria's relations, including her parents, and describing himself as a widower, so I'm forced to conclude that there were support mechanisms available. John keeps the same occupation throughout his life, so however ill-paid, he was able to find employment. Maria's life of crime extended over more than a decade, so I can't say she went funny in her forties. I've had a look at some of the photos of female prisoners on the National Archives website and some of them do sound as if they were in need of help rather than punishment, but I don't think that Maria falls into that category.

I agree with Kim a bit of colour in the family history. Between this and the Pendall Witches really made my day. As Kim says she may have stolen to feed her family which is understandable. Don't be to harsh on her. In the early 1900's a young girl of 6 stole a bottle of milk and was sent to an asylum for 36 years. So justice or the lack of it was OTT. My lot are totally boring except for a few illegitimate births or shotgun weddings. Pat

Ggg-granny Maria Horne died in the 1890s, within the lifetime of my grandfather. The family had plenty to tell me about every branch of the family, except this one. When I found a Maria Horne in Millbank Penitentiary in 1871, I couldn’t believe my eyes. So I went to Kew to investigate. Sure enough, it was my ancestor. This provides ample justification for the moves the family made and why there is a large gap between the youngest child (born under a year after Maria was due to be released) and the rest of his siblings. It would also explain why Maria’s father does not mention her in his will. Grandfather was a policeman. I wonder if he knew about his great granny? Next step has to be to scour the local newspapers, to see if I can find any extenuating circumstances, but as far as I can tell, Maria was a common thief and must have been regarded as a hardened case for her to be sent all the way to Millbank. Oh, the shame!