Genealogy Chat

I have Mark Fenton who married Margaret McLoughlin in 1871. (All missing on 1871 census) By 1881 he was with Jane Fenton (ne Woodroffe / Woodruff). I can't find Margarets death or the remarriage to Jane. All this happened in Salford, Lancs. Can anyone help PLEASE ??? Regards (will be eternally grateful), Dea

Dea Think this could be Janes Birth... Name: WOODRUFF, Jane Ellen Record Type: Births Quarter: December Year: 1845 District: Salford County: Greater Manchester Lancashire Volume: 20 Page: 887 Looked for marriages searched Mark Fenton Salford found the one to Margaret in 1871 on and another one was in 1899. Lesley

I did just wonder whether the 1871 marriage you found actually belongs to this family? (this is 1881 census) Mark FENTEN Head M Male 50 Bury, Lancashire, England Coal Labourer Margaret FENTEN Wife M Female 38 Macclesfield, Cheshire, England Jane Dean FENTEN Daur Female 9 Bury, Lancashire, England Scholar Bernard FENTEN Son Male 5 Bury, Lancashire, England Sarah FENTEN Daur Female 1 Bury, Lancashire, England James FENTEN Lodger W Male 57 Bury, Lancashire, England Furnaces Tenter (Dom) Living at 19 Hornby St, Bury, Lancs. Sarah

Dea This is only death coming up for Mark Fenton in salford it would make his birth yr 1852. Name: Fenton, Mark Record Type: Deaths Age at death: 44 Quarter: December Year: 1896 District: Salford County: Greater Manchester Lancashire Volume: 8d Page: 18 Lesley

Thanks Lesley - I had not found that Jane - I will look into it.! I have just found one in Salford - born 1842 or 1852, depending which census you look at. but this is not the one you have found. - I will follow both up. I do believe the death is 1896 is the correct one. Sarah, The Mark Fenton in Bury is not the same one unfortunately but mthank you for looking. It is the death of Margaret and the remarriage to Jane which I am REALLY DESPERATE for. Any help appreciated. Dea x

I know it's not the same Mark, but I wondered why I can only find one marriage for a Mark Fenton to a Margaret and this Bury couple would be wanting a marriage cert with those names! lol Do you have the marriage cert? Sarah

Hi Dea Did you find him in the 1891 census? I just want to see that I'm looking at the right people. He's a stone mason married to Jane, with 5 children. Regards Andrea

Sarah, Yes, I have the certificate. After many e-mails to Lancs BMD telling them they had got it wrong - I was embarrased to receiv the cert which proved them right. Mark Fenton did indeed marry Margaret McLoughlin on January 2nd 1871. Dea

Andrea, Yes, that's the one - He was a stone mason. I have him in 1881 and 1891 - with Jane. By 1901 he was dead but I can't find him in 1871 when he should be with Margaret + children (whos?), Thomas and John/ Dea x

Ok - So the Mark who married in 1871 was the son of George a miner, and the older Mark who is with Margaret in 1881 was the son of Samuel a Furnace labourer!! Not only that, but Mark who was married to Margaret on the 1881, was married to Alice on the 1871. Huge apologies for doubting you!!! Sarah

Maybe your Mark and Margaret were on an extended tour of Europe for their honeymoon in 1871???!! lol Sarah

Oh my Gosh Sarah - You have TOTALLY confused me now! MY Mark who married in 1871 was the son of George who I believe was a Joiner NOT a miner. I believe HIS son was the one who married Alice in 1899??, and I don't know anything ANYMORE. XXX

Oh - take no notice of me!! Am on the wine. Maybe we should take a fresh look tomorrow, or something! I haven't gone any later than 1881. You are the one with the cert and I may have misread George's occupation in 1861 - I thought it was miner, but could easily have been joiner! Look at all those similar letters lol!! Sarah

Thanks Sarah, Nite nite - see you tomorrow ! Sleep well, Dea x

It might be an idea to send away for Thomas or John's birth certificate. I think this is John's birth: Name: FENTON, John William Record Type: Births Quarter: December Year: 1872 District: Salford County: Greater Manchester Lancashire Volume: 8d Page: 89 I also found George as MINER in 1861 census. Regards Andrea

Andrea, I think this is a different one ?? I have George as a Joiner on 1861 at 11 Briggs St. Salford. Ref RG9 2915. - If you did not now he was a Joiner in 1871 - the writing could look like 'miner'. Is this the same one you are looking at? Dea x

Hi Dea, Here's a summary of my ramblings from yesterday, so please ignore all my previous efforts lol The George on the 1861 census (father of Mark b 1851) is a joiner, though it does look quite like miner, which is what I read in error yesterday. In 1871 I still cannot find Mark aged abt 20 and Margaret aged??? In 1881 I found Mark with Jane, but also another older Mark with a Margaret. I wondered if the marriage ref from Q1 1971 belonged to this older couple?? Later on, I discovered that the older Mark didn't marry his Margaret until 1877 (she was Margaret Ireland), so that was a red herring. Plus you then said you had the actual 1871 mariage cert which showed it refered to Mark son of George (the joiner). So, back to square one! Suggestions Try and get the birth certs for the older Fenton children. Try and find Margaret in 1861 (what's her father's name and occupation?) This would be in order to give you a different stab at finding them in 1871 with the benefit of her age and place of birth. Maybe Mark and Margaret split up, rather that Margaret dying? Then he was living with Jane because his first wife was still alive? I've checked on family relatives (as their indexes are supposedly complete for the period) for the death of Margaret and the marriage of Mark to Jane (again, lol), but there is nothing that looks sensible for the death, unless Margaret was much older and didn't die locally, and nothing showing for the marriage. Uummmm..... Stuck now! Sarah

Maybe you need an pneumatic drill for your wall? Sarah

Hi Sarah, Welcome to another day! Thanks for your summary which is all correct and sorted now. As to your suggestions: Birth Certs for the older children - I had not sent for these as it seemed quite clear thay they were Mark + Margaret, HOWEVER, On reflection I suppose at least it would give us a better idea of when he 'swapped' Margaret for Jane !!. Someone kindly found me a Margaret yesterday (under the name McGlaughlin + born in Stockport - not too far away) - I have looked for her on 1861 and found her with widdowed mother so no nearer to a father yet but at least I have something to work on - she is certainly a possibility. Also, this newly found Margaret is of Irish descent and therefore it is possible that She and Mark honeymooned in Ireland when the 1871 census was taking place. Any ideas how I could look for them over there? Still need either the death of Margaret or a marriage to Jane - perhaps your pneumatic drill is the best suggestion yet? Dea x

Ah, so honeymooned in Ireland, Margaret decided she prefered to stay, Mark returned and needed someone to look after kids - jane. No marriage because already married to Margaret! Have you checked much later for a marriage, in case they tied the knot once Margaret had died years later? My hubby's ancestor waited until 1881 to marry again after the death of his first wife, who he abandoned for the new woman in 1842!! Sarah