Genealogy Chat

as far as i know they were not related in any way . the original surname came from ireland and spelt healey g.g.g.grandfather. my g.grandfather spelt it haillay and my g.father james charles spelt it hailley and haley none of them were illiterate as they signed their own names on birth marraige cert. etc. helen his forst wife came from ashington and james was born in wallsend. i have rechecked the 1837 on line and she is not listed on death's in another area catherine

Catherine Just a thought, but you say he and his first wife had the same name? Was this perhaps a cousin marriage? The RC church would frown on such a marriage (even if they performed it!) and this would have been a very strong point for having an annulment. My pet registrar tells me that once an annulment of marriage has taken place, both parties to that marriage are regarded 'as if they had never been married to each other' and therefore your rellie was not telling a lie when he declared himself a bachelor on his 'second' marriage in the eyes of both Civil and Ecclesiastical Law, it was his first marriage. An annulment is as if the marriage had never happened, rather than a divorce, which is the 'dissolving' of a marriage. My pet registrar also told me, incidentally, that in the late 1800s there were upto 5,000 annulments a year!!! These do not appear in the Registers because - in the eyes of the Law, no marriage took place! The only way you can ever find out is to ask the Registrar if a marriage took place on a specific date which was later annulled. They will not offer you that information. Olde Crone

Have you found her death in another district yet? Pippa

twinkle , why didn,t i think of that . she origanally came from ashington, tyne and wear may be she got buried there and as you said the gro have misspelt here name . i will go back on 1837 and have another look thanks catherine

Ignore the spelling change. That proves nothing, in an age where names were interchangeable, spellings fluid and a significant proportion of the population were completely or functionally illiterate. Poor people rarely had their marriages end in divorce or anullment. It was a difficult, shameful and expensive process. If he remarried in the same Catholic church, it's unlikely he was a bigamist. Too risky - what if someone who knew wife #1 was alive got to hear about it? Could she have been mistranscribed or misspelt? H sometimes looks like an M, for example, and Helen might end up as Ellen. Could she have been buried elsewhere? Did she have any links to another place? Maybe she was just left off the GRO index; she wouldn't be the first.

pippa , my second cousin has just come back from wallsend , he spent a full day checking the church records and nothing was found . if they got divorced why would he state he was a batchelor on his second marraige cert. and church records.?why cahange the spelling of his name from hailey to haley . all the other hailey decendants use this form of spelling but all those decendent from james charles use haley including me . another puzzling factor is that helen[his first wife] surname before she married him was haley. catherine

I have just googled it and it seems that you have to apply to a tribunal for an annullment. Usually in the Archdiocese where the marriage took place. Maybe if you contact the church that they will have records? It seems that the process can take up to 24 months but has to be done if you are to re-marry in the Catholic Church. Have you checked the funerals for that church as well just to make sure if she did die? Pippa

pippa , have you any idea how i could find out if they got divorced or not catherine

If they were Catholic perhaps their marraige was annulled therefore would not appear as divorced on his wedding cert? As a Catholic I would think the only way to re-marry in a Catholic Church would death of the spouse or annullment. Pippa

siobhan, my second cousin has just come back from wallsend where he has been trying to find this death also could find no evidence of any church service of buriel and no records . i too am starting to think that mybe he was a bigomist as why would he use haley and not hailey [the name on his birth and first marraige cert] and why did he say he was single ? if he was a bigomist then it is the first in my research . thanks for everyone,s help catherine

Perhaps he was a bigamist

If his marriage cert in 1926 doesn't say he was widowed, there is no evidence that his previous wife had died. nell

just to add some more info to my message both marraiges were in the same roman catholic church in wallsend . catherine

angela , james married first to helen 1918 then he marrid catherine in 1926 catherine

gwyneth there is no helen' hailey's at all on 1837 between those years . helen , on his second marraige he used the name haley and not hailey and he stated he was a batchelor.

She may have remarried. Does it say on James' second wedding cert that he was widowed or divorced? nell

I have similar problems with my Great Grandmother . She left her husband and five small children around 1906 and he remarried in 1927 a widower. I have found no death but as she disappeared and was never seen again ,It may be that as more than 7 years had passed he could have had her declared dead so he could marry. Deborah

Could she have died in another registration district, - in hospital, perhaps?

can any one advise me where to look next i have trawled through 1837 online for the death of helen hailey in tynemouth district from july 1918 right through to march 1926 .still no death record for her. she must have died between these years as she married james charles hailey july 1818 .then in feb 1926 james charles married catherine potter any ideas would be a great help . catherine