Genealogy Chat

It probably just needs someone else to look at it because I think I've just got myself in knots! I have a Stephen Scragg marrying an Alice Lake on 24 Dec 1872 at Preston St John. It says her age is 20 (so born around 1852) and her father's name is Thomas Lake, Weaver (decd). Now on the census returns I have showing Alice (in 1881, 1891 and 1901 - married and called Scragg) she is listed as being born in Preston but the only Alice on BMD for the correct period is one born in Yarmouth 4b 21! I sent for the certificate ages ago and indeed her father is a Thomas but he is a cabinet maker. I know it could be him but there's no reference to Yarmouth anywhere with regards to Alice. I have since tried to be a bit creative and have discovered an Alice LEAK registered in Preston OND 1852 8e 391! Do you think it is truly possible that this is correct instead? Someone on RC has kindly checked some other earlier census returns and found an Alice Leek/Leak in Preston but there's no father living with them so I can't say if its the right person - and besides I always thought I was looking for a LAKE! This line has been a brick wall for ages and I'm not sure how to progress with it, any help gratefully received!! Sharon

I have a few slight alterations in the spelling of surnames especially. I suppose in those days it was all down to how the writer heard the name said and their interpretation of it. I would think it has a 99% chance of being her (Leak/Lake) Found this 1861 Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image William Atkinson abt 1791 Claughton, Lancashire, England Head Preston Lancashire Alice Leak abt 1857 Preston, Lancashire, England Granddaughter Preston Lancashire Elizabeth Leak abt 1855 Preston, Lancashire, England Granddaughter Preston Lancashire Henry Leak abt 1829 Bentham, Yorkshire, England Son-in-law Preston Lancashire Isabella Leak abt 1831 Ellal, Lancashire, England Daughter Preston Lancashire John Leak abt 1858 Preston, Lancashire, England Grandson Preston Lancashire William Leak abt 1853 Preston, Lancashire, England Grandson Preston Lancashire Gloria

I had a look and can find the same enrty you have for preston or alice lake,sept,1848,ashton,xx101,hope this helps,karen

And this death ??? Name: Leak, Thomas Record Type: Deaths Quarter: December Year: 1865 District: Preston County: Lancashire Volume: 8e Page: 390 Gloria

Gloria Thanks for those two look ups...I suppose it makes sense but how can I PROVE its who I'm looking for or I can I not really? The age of Alice would be 5 or years out as well according to that 1861 return. Sharon

Thanks for looking Karen, would be good if it were right but not sure because that DOB would be a bit early if age on marriage certificate/census are correct. Thanks for helping! Sharon

On a lot of dates of birth it says abt. and there is sometimes a wide variation of the 'about'. I have to go out soon but if no one else has come up with anything more I will have another look this afternoon. There are some excellent people on here who I am sure will solve this for you, just give them time. Give this thread a nudge throughout the morning in case they aren't on yet. Gloria xx

Thanks Gloria - I really appreciate that! Its great to have someone to help and bounce ideas off :-) bit of a lonely business if you're stuck with no help! I hope you or someone else can help me progress this line. I'd be sooooooo grateful! Sharon

Sharon>>>>>>>> (1) do you know the nameof alices mother ? (2) have you got any 1841 info ?

No I'm working backwards with her really. She is my great great grandmother and I just have her on the last three census and on her marriage certificate. So I'm desperate to get her birth certificate and details about her parents and siblings. All census returns and marriage certificate indicate her birth to be around 1852 in Preston and I only know her father was Thomas because of the marriage certificate. That's about all I know I think! Haven't got all the stuff with me because I'm at work (naughty!). I have a picture of her at home, a very matronly stren looking lady and I just want to reach out and ask her for more info!! Thanks for any help you may be able to give! Sharon

Marie.. Yes that's the other Alice possibility we have, if we take it that's she's a Leak not a Lake. But its just knowing how I can make this link definite as the only Leak I could find (and others could find) has no father present in the household or there is one and his name is Henry (so not Thomas as on marriage certificate). Thanks for reply! Sharon

Oooh thanks, that christening and Alice Leek with the Pimley grandmother looks interesting. How do you think I can prove the link? Perhaps if I get a birth certificate of one of my great grandmothers siblings and see if it says Leek on that?? (I know my great granmothers birth cert said 'nee LAKE' and marriage cert definitely said LAKE). Or do I just have to presume because the surname variation is going to make it impossible to properly prove? Thanks so much for your help and advice! Sharon

oooh you haven't got the full transcription for that 1851 return at Haydock St have you? 1851 is the one thing I don't have access to really (don't get to library these days with a toddler!). I've just been in IGI and found a Thomas Leak marrying a Catharine Green in Preston 19 Sep 1852 so that looks promising (only just before Alice's birth though ;-)) S

Bit more info! Have found another child to a Thomas and Catherine Leak on IGI - a Mary Ann bpt 27 Feb 1855 and a possible marriage for her to a James Henry Ashworth 23 Aug 1873. Now on the 1881 census when Alice was a Scragg she has a boarder living with her called Mary Ann Ashworth, of the 'right' age (but no husband and it doesn't say if she is married or not on FamilySearch) - am I really pushing the boundaries here or is this help to prove she is the right one?!? Any thoughts? S

hi Sharon, looks like you have romped on with this since I left you this morning, well done Gloria

Thanks Gloria :-) Still not totally solved yet though I don't think! Going to get a big piece of paper out tonight when I have more time and write down all the findings/possibilities and see if I can make any sense of it all. Any other ideas gratefully received though. Would like to try and prove it beyond doubt but don't know if its possible in this case! Sharon

1881 image has that Mary Ann Ashworth is a boarder, unmarried, 26, born Preston. (Bother) - not that i can find a married Mary Ann Ashworth with husband James either!

Well, obviously you could order the Alice Leak birth certificate to check if her father was called Thomas and was a weaver. You can specify a check on the father's name when you order it so you can save some of the money by not actually getting the cert if the name doesn't match. Kate.

Forgot to ask my usual question - who were the witnesses at Stephen and Alice's wedding? Kate.

Thanks Kate! Yes I think I may have to order the certificate but weaver's were pretty common in Preston and Thomas isn't the most unusual name, still I suppose it would be quite a coincidence to have two Alice Leak/Leek/Lake's with father's called Thomas who were weavers and born in 1852!! The witnesses at the wedding don't help really I don't think - a James Page and an Elizabeth Lang. Sharon