Genealogy Chat

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The puzzle is: 1891 census - Samuel Baker – 4 Military Road, Colchester with wife Hannah and several children. 1901 census – 5 Military Road, Colchester - Lacey Baker (Samuels middle name is Lacey), wife Hannah, several children, the last one shown as John Baker, aged 12 – and what looks like ‘sons son’. Problem: - Samuel/Lacey is shown as 45, Hannah is shown as 49 – their marriage is June 1877 Colchester – oldest child appears to be Flora – 21 on 1901 – so can’t place where or who ‘John’ belongs to. This is a line that I am helping a very good friend with and the story is that her father Derrick John Lacey Baker, born 1923 Colchester, died 1996 Colchester, was born as first child of ‘John Lacey Baker’ birth ref. Sept 1900, Colchester Vol 4a Pg 750. This is where it gets complicated because I shouldn’t be able to find a ref for him – the story goes that Derrick’s father, ‘John’ was born to an unmarried girl who was not in a position to keep the baby and it was ‘given away’. The baby was named by the couple that ‘adopted’ it and named after the new ‘father’ – hence ‘John Lacey Baker’, but the only ‘John Lacey Baker’ I can find on the 1901 census is a 12 year old ‘sons son’ of ‘Lacey’ Baker. Does anyone have any idea where we go from here? Regards Trudy

To begin - Samuel and Hannah had children before Flora, so John Jnr could be one of theirs. However, the line you are researching is John Baker, born 1900, correct? It's possible you've gone down the wong line. Do you have this Johns Birth cert?

I wonder if his birth was re-registered? I can't find a John Baker born 1889 in Colchester.

I would have read the image as gran son (without a D) i know it is the same relationship but nevertheless. Flora is also down as 'M' Potentially older daughter somewhere?

A maybe? Ellen Baker abt 1875 Forest Gate, London, England Wife Walthamstow Essex John G Baker abt 1875 Nk, London, England Head Walthamstow Essex >>John L Baker abt 1899 Walthamstow, Essex, England Son Walthamstow Essex Daisy Tanner abt 1886 Walthamstow, Essex, England Daughter-in-law Walthamstow Essex Henry W Tanner abt 1840 Finsbury, London, England Father-in-law Walthamstow Essex

Thanks everyone - Tracy what children are there before Flora - if you work the ages back from the 'gran son' being 12 and taking their ages into account, I still can't see that Samuel (or Lacey) and Hannah could have a child old enought to have a child of 12 by 1901(?) I cant find one registered 1889 either. Jess - thanks for that, I'd just had another look and found the 'M' against Flora - just going to look for a marriage for her now. Trudy

Hi Tracy I had looked at your 'maybe' but it's too far away from where everyone was born to fit. Thanks Trudy

What about Louisa coram baker , their daughter or either of their older sons? 1891 Baker, Charles abt 1888 Colchester, Essex, England Son St Giles Essex Baker, Flora I abt 1881 Colchester, Essex, England Daughter St Giles Essex Baker, George Hy abt 1890 Colchester, Essex, England Son St Giles Essex Baker, Hannah abt 1852 Colchester, Essex, England Wife St Giles Essex Baker, Louisa Coram abt 1875 Colchester, Essex, England Daughter St Giles Essex Baker, Samuel L abt 1854 Colchester, Essex, England Head St Giles Essex Baker, William abt 1884 Colchester, Essex, England Son St Giles Essex

Could John be a son of one of Samuel's twins, Alfred and Frederick, aged 7 on 1881 census?

Have found a ref for a marriage for Flora - March 1901 Colchester males on the page are John Francis Beeby and Joseph Andrews. Will have to do some more investigation.

Hi Christine That's possible - but I think I'm in danger of getting sidetracked here - the story says that the father of John Lacey Baker born 1900 is also 'John Lacey Baker' - that's he name my friends father Derrick always had for his 'grandfather' - and that's who I can't find. Thanks Trudy

From elimination Flora married John Francis Beeby in March 1901

John Beeby is shown as an Infantry Private in barracks in Colchester, and as single on the 1901 census - so I presume that they were about to get married and someone pre-empted the marriage

What if - his mother was a Baker and his father a Lacey - hence the name Lacey Baker?

Hi Tracy Not sure on this one - he was always told that his 'grand-dads' name was John Lacey Baker - so that wouldn't work. Thanks Trudy

You say the'story goes' that John Lacey Baker born 1900 was the son of John Lacey Baker but you also say you have the GRO ref for the 1900 birth. I really think you need to buy the certificate to confirm or rule out the family story, as anything we come up with will only be conjecture.

i think john Jnr was the illegitimate son of one of the daughters , raised as a son by John and Hannah, and given his name by them, its almost 'overkill'...

Jess - I think I'm inclined to agree with you, but why is he shown as 12 years old in 1901, when he should only just have been born? Trudy