Genealogy Chat

Dear Abbess, I usually didn't take much notice of the neibours, but one time I was looking for an ancestor who had a daughter (out of wedlock) & from the daughter death certificate some eighty years after the fact, it actually gave the father's name. While on the census look-up i decided to scroll around & look at the neighbours & what do think - 2 doors away was this nice young chap who had obviously done the deed then left town, as I have been unable to find him since - either that or the poor fellow was met by her father & was no longer with us on earth!!! So - it certainly pays to look at the neighbours!! Regards, Sandra

thanks very much for that information Helen and Christine he was a Police Constable & Inspector of Police at Holborn London during the 1800s so I am hoping now to find more info on him , I know he died while still a Policeman, thanks again

Hi Valerie Someone else asked me that via personal message. My reply was... I started by discovering from the 1881 census that my gg-uncle had been a City Police Constable. I googled around for a likely museum and got one chunk of info from Juliet Bankes City Archives Manager Corporation of London Records Office PO Box 270 Guildhall London EC2P 2EJ tel: 020 7332 1251 fax: 020 7710 8682 email: CLRO [] corpoflondon.gov.uk That was May 2004. She was also able to tell me that he had been with the Surrey Police before serving in the City. She'd given me the Surrey History Centre contact info, but they didn't have anything on him - but did give me some contact info for Surrey Police. That led on to... Gerry Middleton-Stewart Registry Services Manager and Museum Curator Tel:01483 482155 E Mail : 7454 [] surrey.pnn.police.uk Gerry (she) was very helpful and sent me the proforma list of info about my gg-uncle's 2 lots of service with Surrey Police. Their records gave me the personal appearance info. The Police Orders site is useful for Met Police records. http://www.gendocs.demon.*co.uk/police.html#HOW gives info on researching London Police: both City & Met. Good hunting! - Christine (remove *, and [] has been substituted for the e-mail symbol)

At first I never saved the Folio and Page number. I saved the image of the census page, but trimmed off the black surround so that I could print it off better, and trimmed the Folio etc details as well! I have only fairly recently realised what a big mistake that was. I do, however, usually have a look at who else is on the same page and the pages either side, as most of my lot seem to marry either the girl next door, or the sister of their cousin's wife, and then they all go on to live near to each other. Very cosy lot, my ancestors. Of course, whether I will have sufficient self-control to make these extra checks when the 1851 comes on line, or whether I shall rush from ancestor to ancestor seeing where they were and who they were actually living with, then dashing on to the next one like a kid in a toy shop - well, that remains to be seen! Tina (part time Abbess of Grottingham - highly starched habits!)

I have done many of the above mistakes ie not writing down folio and page no and then when I wanted to find them again.........Also didn't take much notice of neigbours....then about seven months after finding the census image for 1851 for one set of ggg grandparents I discovered another set of ggg grandparents living two doors away, their children had later married, it was a nice suprise but I could have kicked myself as I knew the surname of this family already from their marriage certificate and if I'd paid a little more attn to the image I would have seen them there. But I do usually look up the addresses in both old and modern maps (in fact looking them up is one of my favourite things to do) which is great for the ones who lived in London which is where I live as I know most of London and it makes them feel even more familiar. Louise

Oh dear, I had better stop hiding under my wimple and go to confession. My habits are just as bad as the Abbess's. The thrill of finding something on a census microfilm seems to make my brain turn to semolina and not only do I later realise that I haven't written down the reference numbers, but often half of the information as well. Boy do I regret it later. I had better say a few Hail Marys and mend my ways.

Nell, Please could you put your tip about Parliamentary wards on a separate thread, so others who might not read this one can see it?? It's a BRILLIANT tip!!! Merry x

Go on Abbess - (nearly put abcess!) take the plunge, get broadband for £15 or so a month and get ancestry. You deserve it. I wish people didnt change their names, I get so confused (as is my wont)

Valerie Researching on computer for about 4 years, proper going to records offices research about 2 years. But I've had lots of help. Regarding police records - the Met Police records are at Kew. You can find a warrant number and some basic info from police-orders site www.externalserver.me.uk:8085/ The warrant numbers are consecutive in the service record which gives physical description of officer and details of his joining - previous employer, birthplace etc. If he stayed till he was pensioned, you can get details of his final salary, pension and address too. If he was in the City of London police, the details are at the Guildhall in London. All other police forces either still have their records OR have deposited them with the relevant county records office. nell

Christine where did you get your rellies police records from as I have a policeman in our family thanks

gosh Helen you have found put a lot how wonderful for you , have you been researching for years ????

One other tip - info at the top of a census page about parliamentary wards etc is useful when you are looking for a street in an electoral register and don't know which ward the street would be in. nell

I probably take more notice of the surrounds, neighbours etc if the person was living in a village rather than in London or another city. You are right that trawling and being forced to see all the pages in a district is a good way to make us get a ''feeling'' for an area than going ''straight to it'' on Ancestry!! (well, sometimes straight to it!) However, I bet you (about 50p lol): show me any census page from any of the towns/villages (not cities) where I have Victorian rellies and blank out the addresses and district name, and I'll take a guess at where the census page originates..........sometimes I'll even be right! It makes me laugh when I move back to an ''old'' branch where I have not done any research for a while, to suddenly see all those familiar surnames and occupations again, which I've missed whilst I've been in another county...............!! Merry

I now religiously (excuse the pun!) copy the exact reference and always get a copy of the original image if I can. Sometimes you can decipher an occupation from a neighbour where your own relative's is hard to read. Often family members are living next door or just a house or so away. Sometimes neighbours on one census are married by the next census. But you can get a good feel for a place from a census page - a graphic example is in 1861, where a non-direct-line relative, William, is living with his grandparents as a lodger, his own parents a few doors away. There are also other households. The following year, William had moved to lodge with an unmarried mother, got her pregnant, cut her throat in a fit of insanity, was tried, found innocent on the grounds of insanity and sent to Broadmoor for the rest of his life. At his trial, the principal witnesses, apart from the police and medical men, were: 1. village constable/blacksmith/William's godfather 2. William's parents and his youngest sister, aged 10 3. The neighbours of the murder victim. All these people are on the same census page the previous year. nell

I tend to get individual images - as part of the picture of the life threads of the various members of the ancestral chart - with occasional diversions for others who attract my attention. Looking at some of the others (i.e. not on the direct line) has given me an impression of family characteristics... but that has been from things like the Seamen's Register and a copy of a great-uncle's police service record; grey eyes, fair complexion, brown hair, about 5'8' tall. I find it brings them to life in a way I hadn't anticipated. Christine

When I first discovered census records, I dived in, found the info I wanted, scribbled it down and moved on. It was several years before I learnt about enumeration districts and folio numbers. Without these reference numbers, it could take forever to find the right entry again. These days it is so very easy that the only limiting factor is the time an image takes to download (especially for us dinosaurs on dial-up). But I find that I’m slipping back into bad habits. I grab the image and run. I don’t note the reference. I don’t look at the neighbours. I don’t read the description of the enumeration district. I’m no longer gaining any sense of community and one census page is beginning to look very much like another. I’ve been using the excuse that I have limited access to Origins and only use Ancestry where it’s free of charge, but I’m not convinced. Do you all find the address on a map, note all the neighbours, decide what the main occupations and birthplaces are in the locality, or like me, do you just save one image?

Sorry for the pun, but...