Genealogy Chat

This seems to be your relative, Joan: Wright's Directory, 1899, page 250: Thomas, Joseph Cadwallader, draper (Hancock and Thomas), 4 Haymarket. http://makeashorterlink(.)com/?B2AA560CC (remove brackets) Use 'Thomas Cadwallader' (without the inverted commas) as your search term, and it'll take you straight to p. 250.

Hi Mike, Thanks for looking. They must have sold out I guess. Joan

Hi Mary, Many thanks for looking. I don't know what happened to the family, looks like I will have to wait for the 1911 census. I will go to the site you suggest, at least I will see were they were! Regards Joan

Greeting's & Welcome Joan..... Looks Like From 1906 through to 1911(Up to now ) No. 2 Freeman Hardy & Willis. Boot Manf. ( Shop Outlet ) Manager Fred Cooper Home 80. Laurel Rd. No. 4. Johnson & M Ltd. Burton's Provisions Merchants Manger Charles Haswell. MIKE. I think it's Clarks Shoes now but can't afford the bus fare now days £1.20 each way & only six stops and 1.5 miles ....:0(((((

Hi Joan, It doesn't look like it. According to Kelly'sDirectory for 1916, no. 2 was occupied by Freeman Hardy and Willis, a well-known Leicester shoe shop (is it still there, Mike?). and no . 4 by Johnson M and Company (Burtons Ltd) provision merchants. I can't link directly to the page, but go to this site: http://makeashorterlink(.)com/?I20A520CC (remove brackets) put '2 Freeman' in the search box, without the inverted commas, click on Search, then on next hit, and you'll get to page 200 which shows you 2 and 4 Haymarket. The 1908 directory says the same. Mary

Hi All, Don't know whether anyone can help. My G Granfathers brother, John C Thomas, had a Drapers Shop at 2&4 the Haymarket, St Margarets Parish in the 1901 census. I have found his death in 1907 and wondered if his family continued trading after his death. Many thanks Joan

Greeting's Again Elaine..... Sorry No Ward Marriages found For Reuben & Elizabeth at St. George's Parish Church or any others..... Sorry..... Do you wish me to have a look on the 1841. Census returns to see if I can find them or have I already done this for you ? MIKE.

* Bows..... and Doffs Hat *…. Greeting’s Again M’ Lady Mary….. Well strange things do happen So….. Better make sure you always Have the cloth on the table And best crockery out And put the milk in a jug instead of the Bottle.. lol :0)))) There was another Isabella with Parents Charles & Ellen Overton within Newtown Linford ( 1861 ) but Isabella was only 8 Months Old. I can confirm via the General Records Office Index Site Births.:- Jan.~ Feb. ~ Mar. Qrt. 1881. MAUD CHARLOTTE MADDOCKS. Barrow Upon Soar District. (Which covers Belgrave ) Cert No. 7 a. 168. Belgrave didn’t come into the Borough of Leicester till 1892. Deaths. Jan. ~ Feb. ~ Mar. Qrt. 1901. MAUDE CHARLOTTE MADDOCKS. Wellington Shropshire. Aged. 19. Cert No. 6 a. 540. Trawled through 1879 ~ 1892. Death Index’s for your John But the closest I could get to is as follows :- Jul. ~ Aug. ~ Sept. Qrt.1890. JOHN MADDOCKS. Neath. Glamorgan. Aged 46. Cert. No. 11 b. 350. Right names & age a bit out but Wales ? ? Next but wrong Christian Name but right age and Location ? Apr. May. Jun. Qrt. 1885. Joseph Maddocks. Wellington. Shropshire. Age. 36. Cert. No. 6 a. 524. Oct. ~ Nov.~ Dec Qrt. 1891. John Maddocks. Holywell. Again Wales. Age. 43 Cert No. 11 b. 173. Plus the “ 1st. Boar War “ was on doing 1881 ~ 1882. So was John killed through this War ? “ Will that be all for now M’ Lady ? …… Walks back wards out of the room >>>>>>>>> Your Servant… Mam…. MIKE. …..lol

Hi Mike Wondered if you would have a look at St George's for a possible marriage. This is definately a long shot but wondered if their was a marriage for a Reuben Ward marrying an Elizabeth who could also be a Ward, their first child is born1836, they are not in Newark 1841 and wondered if they had followed my fishmongers to Leicester and then returned to Newark as I have them there 1851 onwards with a sister Ann, sounds like it could be 2 of my George's sisters! Thank you Elaine

Good heavens, Mike, that was unexpected! Somehow I find it hard to imagine that a Baronet's daughter would marry a humble butcher, but I suppose you never know... That gives me a starting point for more research. As I mentioned before, there was an Arabella Simkin who was married in the same quarter as Ortraymur, who I thought was a possibility, but she wasn't from Newtown Linford. I've only just discovered the BMD index images on ancestry.co.uk (duh...) which are very useful, but I still have quite a few mysteries to clear up. I have a Maud C Maddocks born in Belgrave in 1881 - can you tell from your index disc or other sources if her full name is Maud Charlotte Maddocks? She's the daughter of Sarah Slingsby Mallet and John Maddocks, and appears on the 1881 census. If it's Maud Charlotte, she died aged 19. I also found a Maud Cooper Maddocks who married in W. Derby, but it seems less likely that this is her. I'm also very interested in tracing the death of her father John Maddocks. Sometime after the 1881 census John and Sarah must have split up, because Sarah had a baby by another man in 1891, was living with him at the time of the 1901 census, and eventually married him in 1905. I've found all the details of her second husband, but I haven't found when John died. If I'm missing any obvious sources of information, please tell me. I was going to get a trial subscription to ancestry, but it's rejected my Visa electron card for some reason. Mary

Greeting’s Again Mary……. Search details for Bella ? From my Female names lists. Bella = Isabella. Marriage. Via Free BMD. Site = Sept Qrt. 1875. Ort Raymur. Leicester. Cert. No. 7a 366. Which as you stated only shows up three names None of which is an Bella / Isabella. From the Ancestry Site Details are:- July. ~ Aug.~Sept. Qrt. 1875. ORT RAYMUR. Leicester. Cert No. 7 a. 356. Not the same Cert No. as the other site…:0((( It’s not St. Margaret’s Church or St. George’s Church Which I can search. Found them on the 1881. Census Returns RG 11 / 3165. / 64. / Page. 6. Leicester. 64, Brunswick Street. With a Son Thomas. aged 3. b Leicester. So…..Using the details for Bella / Isabella. b. Newtown Linford I then trawled the 1861. Census returns for Newtown Linford. The only Isabella aged 5. which came up was …… OH MY !!!! ……. RG 9 / 2281. / 8. / Page. 9. Newtown Linford. Roecliffe Hall. Isabella Marina HEYGATE. aged 5. b. Roecliffe Hall. Newtown Linford. Daughter of …. SIR Frederick Heygate. 32. BARONET. Member of Parliament b Keston. Kent. Constance Anne Wife. 32. b Tamlaylton. Ireland. Along with 4 other Sibling’s And Henrietta Gage. aged 66. Mother of Frederick b. Bristol. Gloucestershire. Indexed has Hoggate for above 1871 Census ( Indexed has Heygate much clearer ) Frederick & Constance are still here But Isabella is NOT. Sir Frederick is also registered in St George’s Hanover Sq. London With Son Frederick G. Scholar at Eton Collage RG 9 / 112 / 8 / Page. 7. But couldn't cross match Isabella / Bella using the name for the marriage to Ort Raymur 1875....:0((( You say you have other questions to ask about other Relatives… ASK AWAY …… MIKE. …Time to blow out the candle me thinks …..<3 ii

Hi Mike Sorry it was a spelling mistake it is Brumby i had not see the one for Thomas Jnr but i had seen the one for Thomas Snr i had also found a death for a Thomas Brumby died age 14 Ashby de la Zouch folio 86 pg 164 ,thank you for looking thought it was me being thick but when you have tried umpteen variations and getting zilch it deflates you...thanks donna

Hi Mike, Thanks a lot - that was really helpful. The William Boulton you found is actually a relative of Francis Brewin's - William married Francis' wife's sister Mary Ann Steel. Oddly enough there were 5 Leicester butchers in the family, all related: Francis and his son Ortraymer and son-in-law Thomas Mallet (Clara's husband), William Boulton, and Thomas Mallet's brother-in-law William North (my great-great-grandfather). No need to look for Steels - they stayed in Lincoln, and I've traced them quite a long way back, as I mentioned in my first message. Still no clue as to where Ortraymer's name comes from - how frustrating! I suppose you didn't find any sign of his wife Belle? I have a couple more questions about other relatives in Leicester, but I don't want to try your patience :-) Mary

Greeting’s Again Donna … I’m a bit confused you have stated TWO surnames for Sophia Or was this a typing mistake GRUMBY / BRUMBY ? I think I have got Tom Brumby (Jnr) on the 91 Census INDEXED as BRENNBY RG 12 / 2511 / 86 / Page. 33. Ashby De La Zouch Ashby Wolds = Moira Ashby Road Next door to the ” Collins Arms Public House “ Robert Bradford. Head Wid. 74. b Heather Leicestershire. John Poyser. Lodger Wid. 83. b Ashby De La Zouch. Susan Poyser. Lodger. 70. b Castle Donington Leicestershire. TOM BRUMBY Lodger. Single. 14. Ag. Lab. b Ashby De La Zouch. Have you look at this one for Thomas ( Snr) on the 1891. ? RG 12 / 2208 / 87 / Page. 7. Stafford. Tamworth. TOM BRUMBY 49. Single. Musician b Hull Yorkshire Looks like some sort of Lodging House Still searching for the others …… MIKE.

Hi All Me again stuck managed to find a Sophia Gertrude Grumby circa 1875 on 1881 living Ashby de la Zouch Leicestershire cannot find her at all on 1891 she wasnt married until 1892 have tried different variations of her name but cannot find her at all.I know her father is Tom Brumby circa 1842 Hull Yorksire... mother is Emily Brumby circa 1854 Ashby de la Zouch...brother John C Brumby circa 1871 Boundary ashby....Tom Brumby circa 1878 Ashby de la Zouch and Alice M Brumby circa 1880Ashby de la Zouch. Sophia is married to Thomas Williamson in 1901. Hope someone can help as my brain is now beginning to hurt .Thanks in advance Donna

Greeting's Again Jo Jo... I've sent you a PM ... MIKE.

Does anyone know if Kelly's Directories are available on line or just at the records office? I went to the Wigston RO this week to look for the Grocers shop at 147 Kennsington Street Leicester. I know that my Walter Burbidge had the shop in 1925 but did not take note of who had it before him as I did not recognise the name - then it dawned on me that it could be his mother who had remarried for the third time. Thanks JoJo

Greeting’s Again Mary……. I had hoped that Francis was in Chatham Street in 1841. But the only Butcher in Chatham Street Was William Boulton. 30.( b Market Overton. from 1851 Census details ) Ann Wife. 30. ( b Gunby Lincolnshire again from 1851 Census ) With A Daughter Emma.6.( Witness to Francis / Virtue Marriage ? ) Did Francis learn his Butcher trade work for William between 41 to 51 censuses ? … But two Streets up from Chatham Street………. BINGO !!!!! 1841. Census Images. HO 107 / 604 / 02. / Page.12. Leicester. Albion Hill. James Brewin. 45 Carpenter. Anne. Wife. 45. Mary. Dau. 15. FRANCIS. 12. Bricklayer. Jane. Dau. 9. Anne. Dau. 6. Henry. Son. 2. ALL born within the County. Other Brewin Families found :- Page 11. Albion Street. Thomas Brewin. 75. Carpenter. Ann. Wife. 70. Next door but one. William Brewin 30. Lab. Elizabeth Wife. 25. George. Son. 4. James. Son. 2. ALL the above born within the County 1851. Census Returns, HO 107 / 2088 / 80. / Page. 26. Leicester. Albion Hill. Brewin’s Yard. JOHN BREWIN HEAD M 26 M CARPENTER & JOINER LEI LEICESTER EMILY BREWIN WIFE M 28 F LEI LEICESTER JOHN SAMUEL BREWIN SON 4 M LEI LEICESTER MARY JANE BREWIN DAU 2 F LEI LEICESTER * JAMES * BREWIN HEAD M 54 M MASTER CARPENTER EMPL:1 MAN LEI REARSBY ANNE BREWIN WIFE M 55 F LEI MELTON MOWBRAY ANNE BREWIN DAU U 17 F LEI LEICESTER HENRY BREWIN SON 13 M SCHOLAR LEI LEICESTER WILLIAM BREWIN NEPH U 18 M CARPENTER & JOINER NTT NOTTINGHAM Sorry NO sign of Steel Families either 1841 or 1851. So they might still be in Lincolnshire And being within the Publican Trade could be anywhere !!!! St. Margaret’s Parish Church Anne Brewin’s Marriage :- Entry No.102, JUN 15, 1854, after Banns ISAAC NEALE, 24, Bach. PORTER, of SOUTH LUFFENHAM, Son. of SIMON NEALE, GARDENER ANNE BREWIN, 20, Sp. of ALBION HILL, Dau. of JAMES BREWIN, BUILDER Wits: JAMES BREWIN, ELIZABETH PARTRIDGE. I would like to think that you will continue to ask for help on this thread I would save up and get Ancestry for the year That way you get the full service And I believe it can work out cheaper than Monthly ? ….. MIKE. UPDATE. Possible Marrage. ...? James Brewin. ~ Ann Tyers. Ragdale.Leicestershire. 1831. By Banns. From the I.G.I. Christening Found. James Bruin. 17th. October. 1796. Rearsby Leicestershire. Father. = Thomas. Mother = Ann. Is this the Thomas & Ann from the 1841. Census ? ..Ummmm

Mike, that's absolutely brilliant! Virtue Brewin née Steel did indeed come from Lincs. How do you manage to find all this information? I'm a newby at this business, and I've got to the point that I've found a whole lot online but I'm starting to get stuck with lots of people. The only things I've paid for so far are a few 1901 census and 1837online credits, to get the 1861 census. Other than that I've mainly been using BMD, IGI and the 1881 census. Is it worth waiting till I have a pile of questions and then subscribing to Ancestry for a month? Any other tips? I don't come to England very often, so it isn't easy for me to go personally to a Record Office. Mary (from Birstall)

Greeting’s & Welcome Mary….. Here is the transcript of Francis / Virtue Marriage:- St. Margaret’s Parish Church. Entry No.239, APR 7, 1850, after Banns FRANCIS BREWIN, 24, Bach. BUTCHER, of CHATHAM St, Son. of JAMES BREWIN, CARPENTER VIRTUE STEEL, 26, Sp. of CHATHAM St, Dau. of JOHN STEEL, PUBLICAN Wits: JAMES PARTRIDGE, EMMA BOULTON. So you have Francis Father’s Name now then….. And here they are in 1851. Census Returns HO 107./2088 / 239 / Page 32. St. Margaret’s Parish. Leicester East. Upper Conduit Street FRANCIS WARREN BREWIN HEAD M 24 M BUTCHER LEI SMGT VIRTUE BREWIN WIFE M 29 F DOMESTIC LIN BRAIRBY CLARIA BREWIN DAU U 10MTHS F AT HOME LEI SMGT This states that Virtue came from Lincolnshire ? It’s Indexed has BREUIN on Ancestry site. But BREWIN on my Indexed Census returns Disk. 1861. Census Image returns :- RG 9 / 2286 / 72. / Page. 13. St. Margaret’s Parish. Leicester East. No. 64. Brunswick Street. Francis Brewin. Head. Mar. 34. Butcher. b Leicester. Virtue. Wife.39. b Lincolnshire. Stanby. ORKAYMAR. Son. 7. b Leicester. Indexed as ORTRAYMER via Ancestry. ORKAYMER via my Index Disk. ORTRAYMUR via Burial Records.( See below ) Burial record for Welford Road Cemetery :- Names. / Dates./ Age. / Last know address. / Parish. BREWIN ORTRAYMUR 28 JAN 1887 33 BRUNSWICK STREET SAINT MARGARET C E 954 F 28141 C. = Consecrated Ground E. = Section. F. = Freehold plot. 28141. = Burial No. BREWIN VIRTUE 27 DEC 1886 68 BRUNSWICK STREET SAINT MARGARET C C 75 F 28028 I’m off out now… I’ll continue on my return Later tonight MIKE.