Genealogy Chat

Gerry <<Why don't our Government trust us>> I would be extremely UPSET with a Government which trusted individuals to act responsibly without any given restraints - people don't! You were lucky that people allowed you access to their properties etc, as you say, you could have been a mugger or a rapist and MORE FOOL THEM. I don't mean this in a disrespectful way to you personally, I mean it to everyone who acts without thinking. I was at my local LDS centre recently and the Manager told me that she never transcribes any local record which could cause embarrassment, after an extremely distressed lady begged her not to transcribe her late parents marriage, which was a little too late for the said lady to be legitimate. This doesnt matter a hoot to any of us, of course, but it had been a source of deep shame to this lady all her life and she was desperate that the neighbours, family members etc, didnt find out. The information is still available, but people will have to hunt for it, rather than it being conveniently transcribed. Many older people are still deeply embarrassed about their illegitimacy and whether they are gaga or not, I think we should still consider their feelings. I agree that a money-making opportunity has been lost - the Government could have put this out to transcription by subscription, but they didnt, probably because it is easier to just send the whole lot lock stock and barrel to a third world country, rather than (expensively) arranging transcription here. I think its all fairly academic, anyway because who ever does it, its going to take five years. There are other ways to go for information after 1900 although probably most of it isnt available on line. Personally, I am waiting with baited breath to see if there is any chance that Tax records survive from this time - now, that would be interesting. Olde Crone

What I would really like is that all Parish Registers and other documents were all available to download on-line which I know has been started by the same people as free bmd and and some info from familyseaarch. I am not really sure which side of the fence I am on, I just know whatever access we have we always more! We all got excited about the 1851 and now we are all waiting for the 1841 on ancestry. I have to say that the question of identity theft does not seem to be that relevant as there are plenty of other ways than using the census info. I think that the government should have a proper consultation about the way in which the info should be used and their policies about the info being released and stick to it instead of having this will they/won't they situation.

I cannot at present find the previous threads, but I know that there was at least one in which I mentioned this particular website, and someone else started a campaign to write to MPs. Then the government voted that the 1911 census would be released at the usual date. Also, I believe it was either, or maybe both, the Society of Genealogists, and the Federation of Family History Societies, and maybe the National Archives, I am not sure at present, stated that the census records were definitely not in a good condition. Joy

Hi Merry, < Number 23 Railway Cuttings, East Cheam > Are you looking for Hancocks then?? LOL Kat

Can't even find my relatives on the censuses that are available, so I don't hold out much hope for 1911. By the time 1921 is released I shall be too gaga to remember who I am, let alone who I am trying to find! BUT although I remember filling in the 2001 census - it was the first in our new house and the first to include our children - I am kicking myself that I didn't take a copy to keep with my family history. nell

Michael I must admit I too am down as a Jedi on the last census! Oh dear, I hadn't got the genealogy bug at the time and didn't take the thing too seriously. There is a website that I've seen that shows the statistics from the last census, not individual responses obviously but 15% x, 20% y, etc. It was quite interesting but I cant remember the address. I'll have a look and see if I can find it again. I do have a very curious nature ( a nosey parker in other words) and I'd love to see the census page for my first one too (1981 as well). I doubt I'll be a full shilling by the time it comes out though, if ever!

True I do have to go forward quite a few years to find a census that I'd be on. I'd love to see our families return for 1981 - I can't believe I've got to wait another seventy-five years to wait to see it! Hell, I can't even remember what the 2001 census form looked like and what I answered for the questions, and I filled it in for us all! I'm afraid that I think I was one of the 'Star Wars' loonies who put 'Jedi' down as our official religion! God knows what any future family historians will make of us. Ninety-five more years before I get to see that one. That's one date I don't think I'll be making...

Lol - don't upset yourself Michael!! Think yourself lucky to be so YOUNG!!!!! Merry

Leaving aside the issue of the 1921 census for the moment as that just isn't going to happen in the near future (sure, I'd lke it to!), let us remember that anyone alive as of this minute born in 1911 would be in their mid-nineties. There are not terribly many of these people left alive today, and quite a few, not to be too unkind, are probably not of sound mind or body and neither knoe nor care what us geneologists get up to. It would be very hard indeed to trace a random person born before 1911 and steal their identity based on the census, not to mention pretty pointless - even if someone alive today was shown on the census, they would only be a child back then just a few years old and almost completely untracable through later years except by family members who know where they moved to and who they married. It's not impossible, but I can't see any identity thieves really wanting to make the effort. of using the 1911 census to commit fraud. I can see where everyone is coming though with the privacy angle. I think of it like this. It's the year 2061 - I'm in my eighties (hopefully I'll live that long!)- and the government wants to release the 1981 census 20 years early, which would the first one upon which I appear. Would I really care? No. I don't think so. Is it right? After all, we were promised '100 years of secrecy'. Probably not. Christ, this thread is doing my head in!!

I might be wrong here but, in response to Olde Crone, I thought that the 100 year rule wasn't brought in til after WW1, so when the 1911 census was taken the repondants weren't promised that they would be kept under lock and key, as it were, for 100 years.

LOL Michael.....I will keep my fingers crossed for you!! Merry

I've heard a lot of 'scare stories' about the 1911 census, its general condition or lack thereof, but let's face it, none of us REALLY know what it is like, and those who do know aren't telling! There must be sections for parts of the country at least that are usable. Even if it's like the WW1 army records and only 40% survives, that is a lot better than nothing. Mind you, the way my luck goes my lot would be in the 'missing' pages!! I had terrible luck with the 1851 census - half of mine were in Manchester (flood damaged) and the other half in Thaxted, Essex (compltely missing). I can't get this unlucky again in 1911, can I??? Please god, let them be among the survivors this time. I deserve it!!

I thought the main point was that you cannot film or transcribe from paper that has deteriorated so much???? If the 1911 is only half as bad as I have seen mentioned on this site and in other places, then any amount of offers to film/transcribe what can be plucked from the mouldy old warehouse where it is being stored, will be a waste of time if all we have is Number 23 Railway Cuttings, East Cheam, and nowhere else............ Merry

I'd like to reply to Olde Crone, who does raise some quite interesting points about the census and privacy issues, but I was under the impression that the government farmed out most of the transcribing to outside contractors anyway, and that the relevant article online I linked to in the top of this discussion says the following:- QUOTE: You may be aware that, in 2004, 120 MPs signed Early Day Motion 871, urging the Government to create an additional £10m-£40m in revenue from on-line fees by releasing the 1911 decennial population census straightaway instead of waiting another 8 years, until 2012. : END QUOTE This seems to imply that the 1901 census, one way or the other has been a huge money-earner for the government and there are certainly not going to be any hospitals closed so they can find the money to release the census. It is a good point about the 100year rule though. Like many, I need the 1911 census at least to get the complete list of my grandfather's siblings. I don't care what condition it is in - I don't even care if it's indexed properly or not - I know where they're living, I just need to know who else is in the household in the way of brothers and sisters. I'm not holding out my hopes, but I'd like to at least keep the issue alive so that we do at least get it on time in January 2012 and don't have to wait even longer for it. Any hope of making the process quicker is very welcome. I'm sure I read somewhere that the original 1841 and 1851 censuses were released early in about 1912 after pressure by the Society of Geneolgists, so hopefully, the 1911 will be treated the same way. I'd hate to think the 100year rule was set in stone. I agree that the 70year figure America has seems right. Hell, even Ireland can get access to their 1911 census, and so can Canada. Why not us? Michael

I don't see why we should not have the 1911 and 1921 cencus as if America can then why not here

Playing Devil's advocate here..... Why on earth should the Government even consider releasing these censuses early, and who is to pay for it if they do? The Censuses were taken to provide information for the Government on forward planning, not for the needs of family history researchers. In addition, the population at the time were told that the information on individuals would be private for one hundred years, thus hopefully encouraging people to be honest in their replies. If the Government of today are seen to renege on a promise made 100 years ago, then that would set alarm bells ringing (in my mind, if no-one else's) that their promises on privacy cannot be trusted. The money is simply not available to pay for the transcribing of these records - would you rather they diverted money for a new hospital to this cause? At the end of the day, genealogy is a hobby, nothing more. Many people born before 1921 are still alive and may be seriously distressed if family secrets are made public. Finally, the 1911 census is in a poor state of repair. I thought I read somewhere recently that it has already been sent to Sri Lanka to be either transcribed or scanned - I can't remember which - and will duly appear when it has been completed. Olde Crone

Well done Michael, Surely if we nag 'em enough they will bring out the census early just to get some peace (like kids do!) Keep nudging this thread. Claire

I've just emailed my MP after seeing this thread and copying and pasting the letter from the website given above. However, I don't hold out much hope of getting it released early, as we've been here before, in 2004 and the MP's turned down the chance then. I've also heard that the 1911 census is in a pretty poor state with some of it missing and some water damaged and even eaten by mice. We can always hope though. Kath. x

Alter Ego For those of us not in the know, can you tell is why it's not worth it? Is it not going to be of any use at all?

Alter Just out of curiosity, what will they be like and how do you know? I really need the 1911 census and so I won't be able to research my great grandads side until 2012. Would be nice to know what is waiting for us.