Genealogy Chat

what a great read Glen! l changed to a photo driving license recently and despite having held a license for more years than l care to remember, I had to provide, birth, marriage certificates and a signed reference from a professional person so surely your driving license( l take it yours a photo one) is more than adequate proof of your identity.

well done Glen, for fighting the beaurocrats ( sp?) for us all!! Jess - any spelling corrections gratefully recieved!!

Hi all. Well the first week is finally over,and it seems the P45 and refusal of production of a long cert have worked,(for now at least). Thanks to all for your help,advice and support. Just bear in mind that now the boards will be more quiet in the week,i'll only be around at the weekends. Thanks again Glen xxx

Under the Asylum and Immigration Act 1999 you are required to provide an employer with specific proof of identification. There are various combinations of documents that meet this legal requirement and a P45 and a copy of your full birth certificate or passport will meet this. There are other various combinations and but can't remember what they are, if you need confirmation leave me a posting and I will come back to you. I would have thought that an adoption certificate would suffice instead of a birth certificate.

Hi Glen Just for everybody's information it's not against the law to access anybody's Certificate of Adoption (either short or full) provided you can give the name of the adopted child and surname of the adoptive parents. You can download the application form from the GRO website and send it in by post, phone or fax and pay by credit card. Overseas applicants (that's me) have to send a cheque made out with address of a London bank. If you can provide the name with a GRO refererence the certificate is 8 pounds 50p but without the GRO reference it will cost 11 pounds 50p. Edit. I also should add anyone can search the Index of the Adopted Children Register. (ACR) This can only be done in person in the public viewing room at the Family Records Centre (FRC) in London. This information is not on-line. I understand all adoptions post 1969 are now computorised. The Register goes as follows: Surname in ADOPTIVE name Year of birth First names Date of Entry onto the ACR No of Entry and Volume No (GRO reference) The details on an Adoption Certificate are: No of entry. Date of birth, Name and surname of child. Sex of child, Name and surname, address and occupation of adopter or adopters. Date of adoption order and description of court by which made. Date of entry. Signature of Registrar. In my brothers case it showed country of birth at that was the law in 1957... not sure if it's changed. Hopes this helps everybody. Cheers Gerry Brindle

hello to adoptees and other interested partys re-reading all of this thread, a memory drifted into my mind - many years ago, probably when I was 18 or so - my adopted mother mentioned something or other about getting me a 'long' birth cert. so people would not know I was adopted. It might have been when I was about to go into nursing training. As I am pushing 62 you can see why the memory took a while to drift in (lol) It would appear that at that time a short cert. was a dead giveaway as to ones legitimate - or rather not - status. I don't appear to have a long cert. If I did I have probably lost it. Or maybe I never had it. I have a long cert which looks like an ordinary birth cert, except that when you read the smaller print it says it is a copy of the entry in the adopted child register. Life has many odd turnings, and adoptees turnings seem to be odder than most

Thanks Dorothy,if you ever fancy taking over from my boss let me know. Today i started the job and no mention either way about this certificate nonsense at all. I also spoke to a colleague from the old firm,when he registered for benefits,(his first time and in his fifties) he couldn't remember his NI number. The clerk asked him if he had a driving licence,(which he does) and from his driver number the DSS or whatever they are called now could get his NI number and a report on his stamp payments,including a shortfall he had from 20 years ago. So knowing that,does anyone need my cert short or long? Glen xx

Hi All, Thankyou for your kind comments. I am very thick-skinned and it takes a lot to offend me, but I am always aware how an inappropriate or misguided choice of word may, unintentionally, cause offence to others. That's all I was concerned about !! Jay

Hi Sheila It's actually for an HGV driving job,something i have done for the last 13 years.He knows my previous employer personally,has taken up references from 2 more employers,these take him back to the early 1990's. The job itself is a niche within the driving jobs out there,you couldn't actually put a 'standard' hgv driver straight onto it without specialist training,i have several years of this type of work under my belt,so he gets all my experience for free so to speak. Perhaps that might work to my advantage,i will definitely know tomorrow,as it is supposed to be my first day. CAB have just phoned,they can find no instance in any paperwork they have where a birth cert short or long, has to be produced for ANY reason connected to employment. All they can find is an employer must only employ a person if they can legally work in the country,and must verify the elligibility of the applicant. How that is to be verified isn't specified. Glen xx

Hi Glen. I agree with you Glen a lot of issues brought up here, if we are all going to be required to oder long versions of our birth certificates, there could be a lot of skelatons rattled out of their cupboards :O( By the way what job are you applying for ? bodyguard to the Queen or Prince William? would have thought the references, Driving licence and short cert, would be proof enough who you are, maybe they would like you to leave your first born with them as collateral ;O) Fingers crossed it all turn out well in the end, before we all have our gast's flabbered ! Sheila ps. Janet I also did not take any offence to your comment, take care.

Hi all Nothing to report back as yet. Janet i don't think anyone was offended or upset by your use of the words special need,certainly i wasn't Vicky you have hit the nail on the head,as ever the law is at fault and the way it is applied is not always correct. Now this leads me to a real hum dinger of a question. How on earth will ANYBODY prove IDENTITY Tto obtain an identity card (if and when) they ever become required? It seems to me that it is not possible,the nearest way i could prove it is count my teeth,none at birth and next to none now. Off topic? No not really,i think some very important things have been brought up. Just to summarise where i stand at the moment with my situation, I am not prepared to disclose a long cert to the employer ,as i don't think the extra info regarding my parents, or references to court and adoption orders have any bearing on my suitability for the job he wants me to perform. Glen xx

I was adopted. I sent for my original birth cert and on the side it was written.. 'adopted' I also purchased my adoption cert as I knew who my birth famil was and when and where I was adopted. So it was made easier for me... hope you have luck with your search. Anne :)))

Hi again everyone, I'm not adopted and I'm still finding this thread fascinating, for all the different issues it has brought up. Off topic again I know, but in this case the law is an ass & all that... this appears to be another instance of this Govt deciding what's best for 'us' without considering there might be special cases. And I don't remember ever reading anything about consultation measures either. This law (about proving nationality) was brought in by stealth before most people realised the implications of it. Sounds good in principle but in practice its raising too many issues about privacy. Perhaps we are no longer entitled to privacy?

Hi Glen I added to this thread a few days ago and have been following it with interest. I've nothing useful to add except to say that I'm pretty disgusted at the whole thing. Talk about making us adoptees feel like blooming outcasts!! The whole thing stinks really doesn't it? Just thought I'd add my support and will watch out for the boss's responses with interest. Best wishes Mandy :)

Janet- i was the one that picked up on your comment- and wasn't the least bit offended by it! I thought it was quite funny actually. It reminds me of something someone once said, i cant remember the context, just that they said ''I didnt realise you were adopted'' Maybe we should have it tatoo'ed across our forheads....!!! I wouldnt mind, makes no difference to me, and certainly isn't something I feel the need to hide or associate with feeling ashamed of. Alice x

I do apologise if my use of the term 'special needs' has upset anyone. I would like to point out that I do NOT for one minute regard adoption as any kind of disability. I personally see special needs as being the equivalent of 'special circumstances', which I feel applies in this case. When I was working, our special needs policy stated that because of individual circumstances, some people may require access to different procedures from others, so that they are not discriminated against i.e in some circumstances, the usual procedures are not followed and an alternative is found. If I was still at work and following that policy, then I would have found the paperwork presented by Glen acceptable, wheras I would normally have asked to see a birth certificate. Jay

Although i'm still awaiting his call,what i suspect is the confusion between identity and nationality. Perhaps he actually thinks they are one and the same. I did wonder,for curiousity more than anything how anyone can actually provide any information without breaching The Data Protection Act,Disclosure of Information Act and still be within The Human Rights Act. When i finally find out what he will accept,and what i'm prepared to give,i think i'll present it to him wrapped in red tape. Glen

Sorry if anyone has already said this but the adoption register is available at the Family record centre. I know I looked up my Mums and my Uncles. Don't know how much the certificates cost though cos they both know who their birth parents are.

What fun would this man have with me. I was re-registered when I was 16 years old - it would give him a heart attack! Obviously I led a life of crime with you during my juvenile years! What a silly and insensitive way of dealing with this!

GLEN, BEEN READING THROUGH THIS AND AM QUITE DISGUSTED. QUOTE TO YOUR NEW BOSS THAT AS YOUR BIRTH PARENTS MAY STILL BE LIVING THEN YOU WOULD BE IN BREACH OF DATA PROTECTION BY SHOWING HIM YOUR FULL CERTIFICATE, WHICH WOULD IN TURN RESULT IN A £5000 FINE FOR YOURSELF( I WORK WITH DPA ISSUES DAILY) AS LONG AS YOUR SHORT CERT, LICENCE, AND PASSPORT ALL SHOW THE SAME INFO HE CANNOT THEN DEMAND YOUR FULL CERT UNLESS HE IS WILLING TO PAY THE FINE ON YOUR BEHALF