Genealogy Chat

Hello To all, I have read all the messages posted re Colliers but I am not sure if any of the replies posted would help me. I dont mean to sound rude but I live in Australia and I am not sure if any of the locations cover the East End of London. I am trying to find out information about my Great Grandfather Richard Davies. My Grandfather was married in the year 1909 at the Cotton St Chapel Poplar. The family lived at number 24 Cotton St. It gives my Great Grandfathers profession as Collier. Could I get some help here regarding an email address for East London. I have hit a brick wall trying to find information out about my Grandfather so I thought a good plan of attack would be to persue Great Grandfather. Have a great day. Maid Marion Sydney Australia

Marion what was your grandfathers name and year of birth? Georgina.

Hello Georgina, Thanks for your reply. A name for poor old Granddad and year of birth is about all I have. Many kind folk have tried to help me with this one but nothing. My Grandfathers name was Thomas Henry Davies dob about 1888. He married my Grandmother Edith Millicent Whitehead in the December Quarter of 1909. From their Marriage Cert I found out his Fathers name was Richard and it showed his profession as Collier. I dont know where my Grandfather was born or who my Great Grandmother was. I believe he was born in Londons East End? I remember as a little girl standing in my Grandparents Garden in Woolwich where they lived. I must have been about 5 years old. Granddad would point to a big Crane and tell me every day when he went to work he would drive that big Crane. I have since found out that he was a Crane Driver for the old John Knights Soap Factory in Silvertown. I have emailed Unilever who directed me to another archives department. Still no answer. Sorry for the long reply but I am trying to put you in the picture. Regards Marion

This sounds like a really difficult one.........If the son married in Poplar in 1909, what's the betting he was a Welshman, with a father as a collier (not many colliers in Poplar!)....and it's only the son who has moved to London. Here's hoping the son has a REALLY unusual first name! UPDATE - Messages crossed! Merry

Marion, Do you know when your granddad died? Merry

If this was my family, I would first try and seek out the parish records for the Chapel in Poplar. I have just looked in the LDS library records, and I can't see it!! Hmmmm......I was just thinking you would have to hope that other family members used this church and there might be a clue hidden there. Merry

Hello Merry Monty, Thanks for your help. I remember my Grandmother died first and Granddad about six months later. Its hard for me to remember as I was only a little girl but I think it would be about 1959 or 1960. I was ten years old when I left England and I,m now in my 50s so I have to put my thinking cap on. No one left to ask. Regards Marion

Marion I was hoping he had an unusual first name. I have been searching the census's but needle & haystack come to mind. On the 1881 census these are all the Richard Davies who are colliers but he may have just been down as miner.. Richard Davies abt 1840 Llangennech, Carmarthenshire, Wales Head Allt No 31, Llangennech, Carmarthenshire, Wales Richard Davies abt 1856 Maesteg, Glamorgan, Wales Head 99 Bethania St, Cwmdu, Glamorgan, Wales Richard Davies abt 1864 Neath Middle, Glamorgan, Wales Son Pentreclwyda Cottage, Neath Middle, Glamorgan, Wales Richard Davies abt 1852 Monmouth, Wales Head 13 Lower Cross Row, Bedwellty, Monmouthshire, Wales Georgina.

Merry Monty Where would I go to find out about the Chapel and to find out if other family members went there as well. Cotton St is still there but I believe the Black Wall Tunnel has consumed most of it. Thats why I thought it might be a good idea to go with Great Grandfather Richard. Regards Marion

Thanks Georgina I appreciate all your searching. I will check out all the names on the Genes Board and contact them if I think it sound possitive. I have placed a message up on the Trying To Find Board but with no luck. Richard may have even worked on a Coal Boat of some sort in the London Docks? Its a tough one I know. Will I ever get to the bottom of this one? I can only live in hope. Well its getting late here in Australia so I will say goodnight and Godbless to all. I will check in again tomorrow. Bye Regards Marion

I don't think you will have any certain luck with Richard. If he was a collier, then I doubt this was his job if he ever came to London (Good point about Coal Boats, though). Often the occupation for father on a marriage cert will be the job that person was brought up to, or trained for, but not necesserily what they were doing!! So, you might find Richard as a collier/miner/hewer in say 1881 living in Wales with a thousand other Richard's doing the same job, and you might find him on a later census doing something else in London! Either way, it would be very difficult (impossible??) to know you were looking at the right person. And there are plenty of children with his son's name on the 1891 and 1901 census records, not all with father's at home :o(( So, to find the chapel records........??? I'm not sure, have you googled it yet?? Another idea.....Electoral roll for the address given on the marriage cert. This would only show men of voting age (over21) and if Thomas Henry said he was 21 on his wedding cert, there's a medium chance he was younger!! (Hmmm, I usually say that, but if he was actually a worshipper at the chapel his age would probably be known so maybe I am being unkind to him, in this case!!). So, if you could track down the electoral roll and his dad was on it for the address, then you would at least know he was still alive in 1909. You could then check each roll going forward untill he vanished. The next problem would be, did he die, or just move house?? Electoral rolls are generally held in local central libraries, but I am unsure about the London area....they may be different? Merry

Cotton St Chapel was a Baptist church. So no baby baptisms....only adult ones (this might help you, or might not!!) I wonder if this is it's address (So not in Cotton St!!??) .....Reverend W. Joynes, minister of Cotton Street Baptist Church, 11 Gough Street, Poplar (1897) For what it's worth, William Joynes, Baptist Minister is on the 1901 census living at 5 Limes Avenue, Southgate in 1901. I wonder if the 11 Gough St address is his home, not the church, in 1897?? There's a lot of places called Poplar in the US!! (kept nearly sending you to America!) Ah....here we are....somewhere for you to write to. See this webpage: http://www.gendocs.demon(.)co.uk/bapt.html (remove the brackets). I would try the Regent's Park College, Pusey Street, Oxford first. This webpage (below) gives you an email addy for the librarian at Pusey St. It might be out of date though (2004): http://www.ox.ac.uk/gazette/2004-5/weekly/281004/appts/entry_9.htm Merry

As Your grandparents were alive in 1950's I would have thought it might be a good idea to write to a local newspaper or community centre as someone in Poplar should remember them. I googled Poplar and came up with a site for Bow Creek school. Addmissions include Dorothy Phyllis Davies in 1923 and lots of Davis. I think it would be well worth leaving a message in their guest book.

A collier is someone who would mine - not unload boats. If he was unloading boats he would be a docker or coal whipper. Oh wow, just read the name, Welsh, eh?

See my last post for a couple of contact addys. Merry

this may help trace the parish records: As with other non-conformist registers, those of the Baptists up to 1837 were deposited with the Registrar General and are now in the PRO at the Family Records Centre. Some pre-1837 registers were not surrendered. These and post-1837 registers are held at County Records Offices, churches, archives of the Baptist associations and Baptist Theological Colleges, or at the following archives: Regent's Park College, Pusey Street, Oxford (including registers previously held at the Baptist Church House in Southampton Row, London). The Strict Baptist Historical Society's Library, Dunstable Baptist Chapel, St Mary's Gate, Dunstable, Bedfordshire. The Gospel Standard Baptist Library, 5 Hove Park Gardens, Hove, East Sussex. Probably worth contactingthe LOndon one and asking if they can point you to where the records are held

heres the webpage containing contact details for teh archive: http://www.rpc.ox.ac.uk/cbhh/Angus.htm