Genealogy Chat

Leah, I accept your views on this subject, but after spending numerous hours at the local archives, money on census, birth death and marriage certificates, and subsciption fees to other websites, would you really be happy if someone distant or not completely copied your tree and posted it somewhere for all to see....would you not like to take the credit for all your own hard work? If not then you are a better woman that me lol.... luv Sara

Hi Leah What we were talking about is when the side of your family unrelated to the contact is copied ie: They're related on my mothers side, but copy ancestors far back on my fathers side too (I could understand them going back one or two generations) and the very weird feeling to find yourself popping up on 'My tree matches' I don't keep anything on here that I'm not happy for anyone to view so I'm not that bothered about it. Happy ancestor hunting Heather

Ooh - I have stirred up a can of worms here!!! As you say, It is just as pleasurable to give than to receive, maybe even more so. Just one question - If you start at the point where you are connected to the other person (in this case great grandparents were brother and sister) would you consider that people who are connected to the descendants of those people by marriage to be relatives of yours or not? I only really consider my ancestors to be people from which I am directly descended, not the marriage partners of all their siblings as well.

Hi Heather and Horatia Glad to see there are a few others who are on the same wavelength as me (although, like you, popularity on here is the least of my worries, which is why I decided to speak up.). Heather - when you say 'the side that is not related to them' what do you mean? The line that is perhaps related through a marriage? If so, then yes, but I don't find that unusual really. A relative, whether through marriage or blood line, is still a relative all the same. I don't view any of those non-blood connections as being unrelated. When you share information about your blood relatives, invariably there will be quite a bit of info on the non-blood rellies. I see all of them as important to my research. If you think of your aunts and uncles - one half will be blood, the other not. But you love them all the same. So this rule should apply no matter how far back in the tree we go (or out sideways or diagonalways haha). There are some non-blood lines in my ancestry which I have found fascinating to research. And when I discover the death of a child, who may be many branches removed from me on the tree, it still pains my heart. Like Horatia, I do find it a bit sad, though, when I come across people who are only interested in the names. I think to myself...were those ancestors so insignificant that they are only worthy of a name? To me, anyone who is connected to my tree is a relative and for that I have great respect and my aim is to give them honour even though they are not alive. It may take me a while to get around to researching their history, but I will get there eventually. Still, for those who are happy collecting names, we can't stop them if that's what pleases them. Each to his own, as they say LOL. I just find it much more interesting to research the social history of a family as well as putting their names on the tree. Horatia - yes, you do sometimes come across connections to your tree who don't actually give as much as they receive, but this is to be expected really. Some people have seen the Who Do You Think You Are programe on TV and decided they want to try researching their tree, but once they begin on it and realise just how time-consuming and costly it is, they soon give up. They may make a few connections on Genes and gather a bit of information that way, but are not willing to put in the hours or money (some just can't afford to do this - it costs money to research using the various websites and ordering certs at £7 a time soon adds up), others, as you have found, are just not computer-literate enough to take on the research, so they give up. Others cannot do as much as they'd like due to ill-health. If I know that someone definitely is a distant relation (no matter how distant and regardless of the blood-link or not) I would still keep that person up-dated on any relevant research discoveries. Maybe one day they will be in a position to give something back when I least expect it - could be a name or bit of info that I never knew about and I'll then be jumping for joy. I'm really not too bothered if I don't get back as much as I give, though. As the Bible says, there's more pleasure in giving than receiving and I have found this to be very true. Hope you all have many more happy hours of researching ahead of you! Leah x

Very interesting reading this! I put a similar thread a few weeks back. I agree in part with you Leah, but it is a shock to find yourself as a 'Match' along with your recently deceased parents. I also felt a bit queasy about it for some unknown reason! I love to get info from others, but then I feel I should also look up any leads myself so I can be sure they are correct. This also gives me a buzz to find said rellies for myself (even though someone has put me onto them!) This serves to make sense of the relationships as well, rather than keep on referring back to my paperwork! Cheers Allie x

I cant see any satisfaction out of copying someone elses tree. I am proud the work that I have put into my tree and yes Leah it is MINE! My work... You are right when you say that they can get the info anyway - so let them! Would they really bother to if they are very very distant relatives? I think not, just easier to copy from others. My tree is on GR as I love to have contact with other people who have the same relatives as me, and we can discuss that part of the tree... But to give your whole tree to someone who is going to copy it and put it on their own website sucks. I know that this is a shame, but Im with Angela on this one...... Sara

I certainly agree with you, Leah, that the people in my tree are not mine exclusively and are shared with thousands of other people who are also connected to the same ancestors. What concerns me is finding myself (who as far as I can tell am still living!) appearing on a list of new names without being asked first, along with my very close relatives some of whom have died very recently. I also feel that before giving my name out to other people as a source of information it would have been common courtesy to ask first. I have had some wonderful contacts from GR members who share my ancestors and we are in regular correspondence and help each other out where we can.

Hi Leah I understand what you are saying, I have lots of twigs and branches on my tree in the hope of finding contacts here. I still open my tree to people, I have just taken steps to protect living relatives identities. However when it happens and someone copies all the details from the side that doesn't relate to them it's a very strange feeling, has it happened to you? I've decided I don't mind and the benefits of sharing out weigh the chance of it happening. I would hate to see people being afraid to share because of it, it is the purpose of the site. Heather

Leah, I too have a lot of names on my tree (offline) about 2,400 but they all have a connection to ME. I have spent a lot of money and time on my research and I am pleased to share it with other GENUINE researchers. I have scanned and sent out photos, BMD certificates but when it comes to my turn to receive anything, I invariably find that they are not very computer literate and can't scan or their scanner is broken or they have certificates but cant find them - that's NOTsharing! On the other hand I have purchased a lot of certificates and I am happy to share them with others who ALSO buy certifcates because then it's give and take; but many researchers just want to lazily gobble up everyone's research and not put anything themselves BACK into the hobby. Again - that's NOT sharing. That's MY view and I am not concerned if it is popular or not. It reflects my view and I am sure it is shared by many others on this website. I am a RESEARCHER and I research. I don't want to be spoon fed like a baby! Lots of things are FREE now but many people don't seem to even want to exert themselves to look up Births Marriages and Deaths up on the FREE BMD website or the Ancestry FREE BMD website. Someone gave me some info on the family history and then I ran with it. I didn't expect that person to keep spoon feeding me for all eternity. Cheers, Horatia

I'm probably going to make myself a bit unpopular for my views on this, but what the heck. I've seen so many similar threads these last few weeks on the same subject and have been holding back, not wanting to go against the grain and just discussing this with fellow genealogist friends (who all feel the same as myself on this)...but, sorry, I just have to get this off my chest...and this is in no way said in anger - I'm just concerned that there's an unhealthy air sweeping through the website at the moment which could spoil the whole essence of Genes Reunited. When you venture into the land of genealogy, there are a few things you have to be aware of and bear in mind. Firstly, there is no such thing as 'My Exclusive Family Tree' as in 'I have exclusive rights to it because I am the one who has researched it'. Anyone can research any part of their ancestral tree - whether they are blood lines are not - so long as there is a connecting marriage, they can then research the whole of that connecting line if they so wish - it is, after all, a tree connection and our family trees are made up of hundreds, thousands of connecting branches like this. Not all blood rellies, just through marriage. Once you train your mind into thinking along those lines and see the bigger picture you will not feel too possessive about your family trees and feeling afraid to share information. You see, whether or not you share your family tree info or not, any zealous family historian who has even the remotest of links to your line of the tree will eventually get around to researching it anyway - so long as they are able to order certificates and look things up on electoral and census rolls, there is nothing you can do to stop a researcher from doing this. The only thing you can prevent them from doing (if you're aware of it online) is displaying details of living persons of your immediate family on their tree online. They can still have the info in paper form if they so wish, but not show it online without the permission of the living person. (If you allow access to your tree which has details of living people on there - the person whom you are sharing the info with will assume that those living people have given consent to their name appearing in a tree online and therefore it is safe for them to add them to their Genes tree). We have to remember that Genes Reunited has been set up to bring people together - as an aid for anyone wanting to research their family tree, as we can all pool resources together and make life easier all round. So, they have given us this wonderful website which enables us to enter details of ancestors online for others to search on and if they see a connecting name, make contact with us and then swap information from trees. That's what this is all about. Sharing. As soon as you give someone permission to view your tree, you are giving them the info they are, at present, possibly missing. They may have some of it but missing certain bits and will be very grateful for a few more missing links to add. If they are wise, they will then back up this information by ordering the certificates or asking you to verify that you have the certs to confirm all is correct. And vice- versa - if they give you access it means 'I am willing to share this info with you, my very distant cousin-through-marriage, so take what details you need for your own files.' LOL. Nobody can 'steal' your family tree from you - it doesn't belong to you in the first place - it is there, for all, for eternity. If you are of the mindset that doesn't want to share anything you are personally researching, that's fine, but I see little point in having the details entered on Genes Reunited. Might as well set up your tree on your PC using any of the available tree building software disks. But even doing this does not guarantee that your 10th cousin, 100 times removed (LOL) isn't at some point going to do their own research on your particular branch of the tree and have your whole family in their tree details. This is what genealogy is all about. You start off with one tiny leaf on a branch and as time goes on there are thousands of tiny leaves all on different branches, but nevertheless, all part of the same trunk with the same roots giving life to the little leaves. Can any of those tiny leaves claim that the tree belongs to them? Of course not... When I first began researching my roots, several years ago, I found it a complete joy to find that parts of my family tree had already been researched by others. I don't understand how anyone can see it as a threat. I say 'well done' to those who have taken the time and put in the effort and money to research so thoroughly. And now I am doing my bit and sharing what info I have with anyone else I discover a connection with. Together we are building Our Family Tree. Phew - sorry that was so long. What a rambler I am LOL Leah

Another angle: I had a contact over the weekend from someone in Canada. My tree is what would be described by purists as an 'extended' tree with lots of twigs and Branches. The contact point was the son of a sibling of a direct ancestor of my wife born 1880/81. It turned out to be a false match. However, having exchanged numerous e-mails I am pretty certain that I have identified the grandfather of the person he was enquiring about on my database for that family. That database contains about 400 names largely my own trawling through the parish registers, the NBI and Freebmd and extends from the early 1700's to the 1930's. Reading some of the comments on here I should be clutching that database to my chest as it's my time and money which has constructed it. But why should I keep it to myself? By opening it up I can maybe help this guy get back another 100 years, something he would never be able to do from 3,000 miles away So he's got the database to make what he can of it and if it helps him I shall be delighted. But, if I had only my direct line on here the opportunity to make contact would never have arisen in the first place.

Yes, I think you are right, Horatia. I will be much more careful in future and give the information to people in another way. Like you, I can derive no pleasure in just collecting a load of names that mean nothing to me but I am sure that there are people who do. As they say - onwards, ever onwards!!

You have to remember that there are several different types of people engaged in this hobby. Some want to research EVERYONE with a blood link to them and others are mere name collecters! I personally would gain no enjoyment by merely adding lists of names to my tree. I prefer that the person has some connection with ME and that I have taken the trouble to acquaint myself with some of that person's history (know the name of his wife, parents, children etc). I am also amazed that many trees on here are made up entirely of living people - that's not family history - that's just a database! Some people have an unusual surname and like to do a one name study. I can see the enjoyment in that because often these unusual surnames are all related to each other (even though the relationship might not be immediately apparent). The ones who amaze me though are the name collecters! Why would you want to receive LOTS of contacts in respect of people you have little or no knowledge of! I must say that there are some genuine family historians on this website who take the hobby seriously and are aware of the sensitivities involved; but on the other hand you must remember that there are also a fair number of philistines, tree snatchers and the CHAV equivalent of a family historian. Their 'bling' is the amount of names they get. They aren't interested in the personality of the subjects or the life and times that they lived in. DON'T OPEN YOUR TREE TO ALL AND SUNDRY! Put your family history into a proper software programme and then you can just issue reports to interested parties. In Family Tree Maker you can even adjust the generations so you can knock off the generations that contain living people. Just use your tree on here as a lure and then you can decide with whom you wish to share. Subject them to a few questions that verifies their intentions and the areas of the family they have knowledge of and which they don't. To me, it smacks of overkill to open a tree that contains hundreds or thousands of names when the contact may only be interested in half a dozen members of your tree! Remember that a lot of the people on here may have websites and they are just looking for names to fill it so that they get more HITS on their website. Try to be aware that not EVERYONE has the same intentions that you do for researching family history! Good luck! Take care everyone! Cheers, Horatia

I recieved an email from a GR member the other day asking for permission to see my tree, I just replied with Why? and they replied that they couldnt remember contacting me and it must have been a fault with GR. After reading a thread like this one before I am reluctant to give my tree to anyone. I have taken my husband and children off my tree. It is a real shame, I dont mind people taking bits of my tree that is of interest to them, ie their direct line, but I would be really angry if they took other parts that has nothing to do with them......So call me a sour puss too. Sara

I think that I may take Roger's approach in future. Contacting the person and casually mentioning that I have noticed that they have put all my dead people onto their tree is a good idea too. I still feel a bit peeved that he has been giving my name to other people and told them to contact me about people that I know nothing about!

I'm always amazed that people can be bothered to copy all the data that isn't their blood rellie......................................but then I suppose I'm quite amazed that people often cannot work out who they are related to...................! Merry

Hi, I made a new contact recently and before I knew it he had put my ancestors from our shared ancestor on his GR tree. To his credit he didn't put any living relatives on there, but seeing my beloved grandparents and my two late aunts on his tree made me feel uneasy to say the least. Knowing that my uncle and cousin are on this site, I asked him to remove their names to prevent any upset, which again to his credit he did. I know this site is for sharing information, but I think that members need to be more sensitive and responsible with the information they collect. It may be a list of names and dates to them, but to the tree owner they are real people. When I make a new contact I don't add any new information to my GR tree mainly because I don't wish to offend anyone by doing so. Admittedly I have done this once recently as a contact provided more information on a branch from the 1700/1800s which I wanted another contact to see. I did however quote the first contact as a source. I have a separate software package, so any new information goes on there. I make sure that the contact is always named as a source, so that I know this information is second hand and does need checking some point in the future. This information is held on my computer and not accessable to anyone else. After reading a lot of threads on this subject recently I've become much more protective of my tree, and don't tend to give access unless it's really necessary. Rachel

I emailed the person who'd copied my tree just saying that I'd noted they'd done it (What a lot of work!) and did they really want to be contacted by people interested in my long dead relations. (I didn't ask them to remove the details as I'd calmed down, still irritates though). They repied the more they had on their tree (well over a 1000 all from other people) the more contacts they got .... Yes well, whatever ring your bell I suppose! Heather

Like Heather I don't have a problem with people taking bits from my tree, it is only skeletal on GR anyway, but I don't open it unless I can see why it would be useful to do so. I have lots of info which is not on my tree which I would send if it was my own research. However, part of the tree relates to my wife, whose cousin and before him her uncle have devoted much research over many years (unlike me, a newbie), so when I was asked about her grandfather I merely outlined the connection and suggested the enquirer contacted her cousin through the GR search, or alternatively gave me her email address and I would ask him to contact her directly, which I feel sure he would do. I did not think it was my place to hand on his work. I've heard no more since. Everyone must make their own decisions on this, but I think that my response was both helpful to the enquirer and courteous to my wife's cousin.

I really don't mind sharing information with people and will help them in any way I can (in fact I had e-mailed some relevant old photographs to this person over the weekend). I had intended to follow these up with loads of other information when I got a mo. I have often sent off stuff to other members like copies of wills, certificates, photographs and other things that I think they may like. I just feel a bit miffed that all the work that I have put in over several years has been copied when it has no connection.