Genealogy Chat

Hi, I was wondering if some-one could help me out with a missing branch. I’m tracing my late Nan’s family and have managed 5 generations on her Mum’s side (and more on her husbands side), but although I think I have a lot to start with I’ve got no further than her Dad on the other side! Can anyone suggest what to do next? This is what I know: John Saunders (Nan’s Dad), born about 1868 (according to age on his marriage certificates), don’t know where but suspect East London. 1894 – John is living at 37 Glengall Road, Poplar. Married Alice Hughes (I’ve traced her family) from 24 Glengall Road, Poplar, at the Parish Church, Poplar. John Saunders is a labourer. His father William is also a Labourer. 1898 – son John Henry born. Living at 101 Elizabeth Street, North Woolwich, East Ham, West Ham, Essex. (I have is birth certificate). My aunt thinks 3 more children were born but the names are so common in the region that we’ve not been able to find them. We think they were Charlie, Robert & Ethel. 1901 – can’t find John, Alice or John Henry on census (nor with any of the other children we think we around). Alice Saunders dies between 1898 and 1903. I’ve checked the indexes from Jan 1898 (before her son was born) until Dec 1903 (after her husband remarries as a widow) and can’t find a record of the death of an Alice Saunders anywhere near the right age. Or without looking at age, anywhere near where they lived. 1903 – John is living at 4 Storey Street, North Woolwich, and remarries Eliza Grigson (I’ve traced her family back to the 1750s) at the Parish Church, North Woolwich. John is a labourer. His father William is also a Labourer. 1914 – son, John Henry, joins Navy and states address as 182 Albert Road, Woolwich. He is a deck hand, Port of London Authority. 1916 - son, John Henry, dies in Gallipoli. 1919 – my Nan, Edith May, is born. Family still living at 182 Albert Road, Woolwich. We believe she had 2 older sisters Em/Elizabeth and Rose. Again my aunt is looking for them. 1939 – John Saunders is still alive when my Nan marries and is a cable hand. Family still living at 182 Albert Road, Woolwich. Elizabeth Street and Albert Road run parallel to each other and one of the roads joining them is Storey Street so the family didn’t move every much. The only ancestor of John I know of is his father William who I believe to be alive until at least 1903 and is shown as Labourer on both of his son’s marriage certificates. What should I do next? I’ve never been stuck when I’ve known so much!

Hope you don't mind that I've made your message easier to read Hi, I was wondering if some-one could help me out with a missing branch. I’m tracing my late Nan’s family and have managed 5 generations on her Mum’s side (and more on her husbands side), but although I think I have a lot to start with I’ve got no further than her Dad on the other side! Can anyone suggest what to do next? This is what I know: John Saunders (Nan’s Dad), born about 1868 (according to age on his marriage certificates), don’t know where but suspect East London. 1894 – John is living at 37 Glengall Road, Poplar. Married Alice Hughes (I’ve traced her family) from 24 Glengall Road, Poplar, at the Parish Church, Poplar. John Saunders is a labourer. His father William is also a Labourer. 1898 – son John Henry born. Living at 101 Elizabeth Street, North Woolwich, East Ham, West Ham, Essex. (I have is birth certificate). My aunt thinks 3 more children were born but the names are so common in the region that we’ve not been able to find them. We think they were Charlie, Robert & Ethel. 1901 – can’t find John, Alice or John Henry on census (nor with any of the other children we think we around). Alice Saunders dies between 1898 and 1903. I’ve checked the indexes from Jan 1898 (before her son was born) until Dec 1903 (after her husband remarries as a widow) and can’t find a record of the death of an Alice Saunders anywhere near the right age. Or without looking at age, anywhere near where they lived. 1903 – John is living at 4 Storey Street, North Woolwich, and remarries Eliza Grigson (I’ve traced her family back to the 1750s) at the Parish Church, North Woolwich. John is a labourer. His father William is also a Labourer. 1914 – son, John Henry, joins Navy and states address as 182 Albert Road, Woolwich. He is a deck hand, Port of London Authority. 1916 - son, John Henry, dies in Gallipoli. 1919 – my Nan, Edith May, is born. Family still living at 182 Albert Road, Woolwich. We believe she had 2 older sisters Em/Elizabeth and Rose. Again my aunt is looking for them. 1939 – John Saunders is still alive when my Nan marries and is a cable hand. Family still living at 182 Albert Road, Woolwich. Elizabeth Street and Albert Road run parallel to each other and one of the roads joining them is Storey Street so the family didn’t move every much. The only ancestor of John I know of is his father William who I believe to be alive until at least 1903 and is shown as Labourer on both of his son’s marriage certificates. What should I do next? I’ve never been stuck when I’ve known so much!

Concering the marriage certificate. Just because WIlliam is not listed as deceased, he could be (Maybe John forgot to tell the vicar) Also Alice's age on the BMD may not be correct - I had an ancestor who died aged 78 (listed on burial records as well), but the GRO have noted 72

could any of these be John jr? 1901 - John Saunders 4 Essex Plaistow West Ham West Ham John Saunders 4 London Bow West Ham West Ham john Sr? John J Saunders 34 London Hoxton Essex East Ham Green Grocers John Saunders 33 Devon Sidmouth Essex Walthamstow Tea Lead Roller John L Saunders 34 London Essex Walthamstow Printers Compositor John S Saunders 34 London Millwall Essex Walthamstow Bricklayer John Saunders 33 Latchingdon Essex Essex Tolleshunt Knights Police Officer John J Saunders 34 London Hoxton Essex East Ham Green Grocers

When/where was Alice born? Merry

So this isn't Alice, then? Deaths Mar 1900 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Saunders Alice 28 W. Ham 4a 150 Merry

This little chap is living with Uncle and Aunt Harry and Sarah ?Stammers?: He has a sister Lilian b1900. John Saunders abt 1897 Woolwich, London, England Nephew West Ham Essex

Yes Liz....I saw that too. That was partly why I wanted to know Alice's details, to check if she had a sister called Sarah (Mrs Stammers) Hello, Karen.............Hello..........!! Merry

Births Lilian Anne Saunders 1900 Mar West Ham 4a 291 Fits with the death record for Alice, maybe died in childbirth?

Sorry everyone. My first post and I couldn't reply (blush) Please bare with me! <P> Louise - Thanks for putting in the breaks - they were exactly where I'd put them but got removed when I uploaded. I’ve tried adding HTML this time (fingers crossed) <P> Merry - Alice Hughes, Born: About 1871, Poplar, Middlesex, 1881: 6 Unicorn St, Bromley St Leonard, London. (9). Sisters: Emma, Mary, Jane, Sarah, Sophia, Matilda (in that order, Alice was the youngest and had no brothers) <P> Oh, I think you're getting some-where.

Helen, Yes, that looks possible, but without Alice's details we can't really go further!! We are all stabbing in the dark! I looked at the Alice Hughes in 1891 to see if any were around in the Plaistow area and there were several. Karen....where have you gone?? oops, there you are LOL!!!! LOL Merry

I have tried freebmd for a marriage between a Sarah Hughes and a Harry/ Henry Stammers, but nothing came up. I am out of credits on familyrellies otherwise I would have looked there. If Karen can confirm whether or not Alice had a sister Sarah it would help. Update - so she did! Did Sarah marry a Mr Stammers by any chance? Liz

OK, so <P> doesn't work! For now I'll use hyphens ---- The Stammers: Thee was some-one called Stammers at my nan's funeral but my dad doesn't know who he was. Hadn't thought it could be a descendent of Alice's sister (there was a Sarah Hughes). No-one can remember a Lilian, I'll see if I can find a death record for her and if little John was with his aunt that explains why I can't find big John (if alone he could be one of many). ---- Alice's death - I'd totally missed this West Ham one - been looking at the scanned in images on Ancestry so must be going blind. Thanks. I'll order the cert.

Karen, when was Sarah born? Sarah Stammers wasa born 1859 Poplar. Liz

Alice Hughes parents in 1871 with the children that had so far: Jane Hughes abt 1857 Poplar, Middlesex, England Daughter Bromley St Leonard London Joseph Hughes abt 1830 New Brentford, Middlesex, England Head Bromley St Leonard London Mary A Hughes abt 1854 New Buntford, Middlesex, England Daughter Bromley St Leonard London Matilda Hughes abt 1868 Bromley, Middlesex, England Daughter Bromley St Leonard London Sarah Hughes abt 1859 Bromley, Middlesex, England Daughter Bromley St Leonard London Sophia Hughes abt 1829 New Brentford, Middlesex, England Wife Bromley St Leonard London Sophia Hughes abt 1862 Bromley, Middlesex, England Daughter Bromley St Leonard London I bet you Sarah Hughes, above, born 1859, is Mrs Stammers below: 1901 Frederick Nurse abt 1874 Lessingham, Norfolk, England Boarder West Ham Essex John Saunders abt 1897 Woolwich, London, England Nephew West Ham Essex Lilian Saunders abt 1900 Marylebone, London, England Niece West Ham Essex Robert Saunders abt 1853 Marylebone, London, England Brother West Ham Essex Alice Stammers abt 1884 Marylebone, London, England Daughter West Ham Essex Harry Stammers abt 1851 Marylebone, London, England Head West Ham Essex Harry Stammers abt 1886 Hampstead, London, England Son West Ham Essex Sarah Stammers abt 1859 Poplar, London, England Wife West Ham Essex Sarah Stammers abt 1882 Marylebone, London, England Daughter West Ham Essex William Stammers abt 1891 Marylebone, London, England Son West Ham Essex Merry

Just a tiny tip Karen, When you are adding a reply you don't need to use hyphens etc - the typing comes out exactly as you do it. It is only when you are starting a thread it all jumbles together in one big block. To get around this, when you start a thread, instead of putting in the whole message most of us just put something like 'see below', then post the thread and then open it, click to add message and type it all in there, then it doesn't jumble. Dea x

Hooray!!!! Marriages Jun 1876 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hughes Sarah Poplar 1c 1090 Kelly Sarah Poplar 1c 1090 MOORE Edward Poplar 1c 1090 STAMMERS Henry Poplar 1c 1090 Merry

What about Robert Saunders? Could he be John's brother or is he little John and Lilian's dad? Would Sarah take in her sister's children and brother in law?

Merry you are brilliant! Well done

Dea - thanks for the tip. I thought it was me, but now it seems like a GR bug which makes me feel better!