Genealogy Chat

1851 for reference Ann Herbert abt 1822 Southwark Wife Lambeth Surrey Daniel Herbert abt 1816 Swindon, Wiltshire, England Head Lambeth Surrey - rope maker John H Herbert abt 1850 Lambeth Son Lambeth Surrey

Zoe that's them. Although if you see on the actual record the name Keylock is written and then crossed out. xx

Just for ref 1851 21 Union Place Head is a Rope Maker Ann Herbert abt 1822 Southwark Wife Lambeth Surrey Daniel Herbert abt 1816 Swindon, Wiltshire, England Head Lambeth Surrey John K Herbert abt 1850 Lambeth Son Lambeth Surrey

Hi Suzy Thanks for replying. All your clarifications are spot on! Ok now for the questions!!!; I don't know any of Florences' siblings names for sure, family say they think there were at least three sisters Kate, Fanny and Lizzie. That matches what is on the census's which is part of reason I linked Florence to them. Incidentally one of Florences' witnesses to her wedding was a K Herbert who I just assume is Kate. Florences mother I suppose not sure 100%. I have couple of possible marriages written down (the major one being to Eliza Long even before I received the birth cert) but John wasn't using the Keylock in the indexes so it's in my to do box but wanted to try and flesh things out a bit before taking that route. Think I was under the impression that Florences' certificate would solve the mystery!!!!! Yes the birth cert for Florence says her mother is Eliza Herbert nee Long. My belief is that the name Keylock comes from Johns' mother who I think was Ann Keylock before she married Johns' dad Daniel Herbert. I hope I've made sense!!!!

I can't see John on the 1851 census - just trying to confirm his date of birth to trace hin forward Zoe ***don't worry - I found him**** ;o)

I have found this. I think it may be John Keylock Herbert's parents' marriage: Marriages Jun 1849 Herbert Daniel Cheltenham 11 294 Keylock Ann Cheltenham 11 294 Sorry if you already have this. Suzy

Hi Marie Sorry, I posted the first reply to your query and then promptly disappeared. Can I just clarify - - You know the Florence Eliza Smith in 1901 is your one. - You have a marriage certificate for Florence and George Charles Smith which you know is correct, because the name Keylock is on it. - You have a birth certificate for a Florence Eliza Herbert which you are not sure is the correct one. - You have found a family on the 1891, but are not sure if they are correct. - You have found Florence's Dad on the 1851, with the name Keylock in evidence. Am I right so far? Now - questions - - Do you know any of Florence's siblings' names for sure? - Do you know Florence's Mother's name for sure? - Do you have a marriage certificate for Florence's parents? - in 1891, the Mother's name is Eliza. Is that the Mother's name on the birth certificate you have for Florence? - Do you have any idea where the name Keylock comes from? Sorry to lay it all out like that, but I am trying to get it sorted in my head, so I can try to help. Suzy

Thanks Kathleen I will look into that. I kind of took an educated guess on the Mowbray one that had always paid off in the past but I suppose the deeper you go into this the harder it is to make assumptions. Do appreciate your help will def follow it through xx

Don't know if it helps or confuses more, but there is this birth registration:- Annie Maude Mowbray Sept. qtr. 1848, Kensington III, 347 Kath. x

Hi Kathleen Florence Eliza Herberts birth cert may still be the wrong one but I have just hit a mental brick wall where she is concerned!!! She is the mother of a deeply loved grandfather and his family is the reason why I started this to begin with!!!!! However, much as I try I just can't seem to make the ultimate connection with her to her father pre marriage. If it is her birth cert if only he had used his middle name. Hey ho.

Sorry Marie, I must have got confused. I thought the wrong certificate you had received was for Florence Eliza Herbert. Kath. x

Hi Kathleen For which cert? Assuming we are on the wrong cert ordered it was for birth Annie Mowbray St James Clerkenwell Oct 1848 For the Herbert connection it was birth of Florence Eliza Herbert Lambeth Church 2nd (think just Lambeth on index) April 1876 xx

Thanks Emma. I am sure I will get there. This one is an important one for me and I won't give up on her. Maybe leaving her for now is the best way forward, unless something else appears. Thanks again. xx

Marie, What was the registration district of the certificate you sent for? Kath. x

Np. Best of luck with your tree in the future Marie, I'm sure you'll find a way to make a connection..... eventually! Emma

Sorry Emma yeaf of birth approx 1876 according to 1891 census and the marriage certificate i have. Birth cert that may be hers is also april 1876 xx John was definately a cab driver/groom or coachman. Thanks for having a go. Much appreciated.

Florence E. Smith is 25 on the 1901 census and birthplace is given as Kennington. Kath. x

Hi Marie When was she born approximately? From the age on her marriage certificate or the 1901 census I guess, rather than the birth certificate if you're not sure that's it's definitely hers. Don't know that I can be too much help, I only have accesss to the free 1881 census on Ancestry (my credits ran out) but I always like to try to help. Know what it's like to come up against a brick wall. I had found this for 1881 but I don't know that it can be right, John's profession is a railway inspector. Eliza Herbert abt 1851 Marylebone, Middlesex, England Wife 2 Francis Ter, Islington, London, England >>Florence Herbert abt 1880 Islington, Middlesex, England Daughter 2 Francis Ter, Islington, London, England John Herbert abt 1848 Blockley, Worcestershire, England Head 2 Francis Ter, Islington, London, England John W. Herbert abt 1877 St Pancras, Middlesex, England Son 2 Francis Ter, Islington, London, England L.Or S. Herbert abt 1880 Islington, Middlesex, England Daughter 2 Francis Ter, Islington, London, England Emma

Hi Emma. Thanks for the offer. I would love a bit of clarity but I don't think there is any one definative thing look up wise that can help. However I would never discount a new pair of eyes and a different opinion!!!!! John Herbert (with the Keylock crossed out on the form) is on the 1851 census with his mother ann and father daniel herbert living in Lambeth. John Keylock was 3 months old. Florence Eliza is a definate on the 1901 census married to George B Smith a printer operator living with two daughters May and Florence in Walworth Newington London. My belief was always that these two were connected in other census 's the most comprehensive one being the one before Florence's marriage 1891 where John and wife Eliza Herbert were living in Newinton and John is a cab driver/groom with children George, Florence, Kate,John,Frances and Lizzie. I just can't find a way to definately connect the two of them together. If you can help I will be so so grateful Thanks for taking the time to reply xx

How about checking her off against her mother in the census. I'm not sure what time period it is that you're talking about but hopefully you can track her through the different census with the right father & mother. I might have got the wrong end of the stick though!