Genealogy Chat

One of the WDYTYA programmes (?Paxman) had an account of workers being shipped (by canal, through the work of agents) from areas of unemployment (especially agricultural) to the mills and mines in the north. She might have been moved under some such scheme. Christine

Many thanks everyone for your help yesterday. Sorry it's a bit late but I had to log off last night. The only definate I have in all this is a birth cert. for Lily Augusta Harris in the Oxford Workhouse and a grandmother who, before she took my grandfather's name, was called Lillian Augusta Harris. All I want to do is confirm these two are the same person and discover why she ended up in Lancashire. Not too much to ask for surely !!!! LOL. Cath.

Incidentally - for the peace of mind of Brummies and Norfolk Dumplings - Birmingham didn't move to Norfolk for the duration of the 1871 census - it was in Stafford(shire) - with a splodgy stroke over the top to make it harder for a transcriber to read. Christine PS - and don't give up. Just put it to one side for a bit, if necessary, and see if something turns up. I had assumed that a ''no father'' baptism with a whereabouts-unknown mother meant there was no chance of finding any more, but I have a very probable line opening up, after all, after researching a nearby bit of family!

Lyla...you may have something there as I know Cath was trying to put an Emily together with a sister Caroline for some reason? Georgina: yes thats them but they have already been found I think earlier in the thread? Suzanne

Cath for reference is this your Lilian on the 1901 census? Daniel Graham abt 1892 Bury, Lancashire, England Son Bury Lancashire Isabella Graham abt 1886 Birkenhead, Cheshire, England Daughter Bury Lancashire Lilian Graham abt 1876 Oxfordshire, England Wife Bury Lancashire Martha Graham abt 1895 Bury, Lancashire, England Daughter Bury Lancashire Norman Graham abt 1899 Bury, Lancashire, England Son Bury Lancashire Thomas Graham abt 1858 Famfield, Scotland Head Bury Lancashire Thomas Graham abt 1893 Bury, Lancashire, England Son Bury Lancashire William Graham abt 1901 Bury, Lancashire, England Son Bury Lancashire Georgina

Hi Cath I think its likely that they didn't marry, for all the reasons you suggest and maybe more. By the sounds of things they had enough to cope/deal with. And are we ever sure who is the real father? Just because all of us get certificates and it says so? I wonder how many of us are claiming ancestors when they really belong to Joe Bloggs! What I say is if they acted like family, lived with family then they are family. Blow the so called blood line. Suzanne

Which children are Lily's in 1901? The youngest two?? Merry

But you must admit that it is strange that Lily the niece says she is born at St Clems Oxford, but when she is with her parents she has the wrong middle initial and was said to have been born in Birmingham, which would suggest she is a different Lily. She may be the right person, but I can't say it looks that promising :o(( Keeping my fingers crossed for you though! Merry

Hi Suzanne, I'd also wondered about that. In 1900 my grandfather had been widowed twice already and had 8 children living - eldest ones not much younger than Lilian -. They went on to have 6 more but whether they ever married I can't be sure. It looks like his 2nd wife had only been dead a short while when Lilian's first child was born. Grandad was named as the father but who knows....... Cath.

Hi Cath I went to my own Grandparents marriage when I was 12 years old - they had lived as husband and wife for over 40 years! (wont go into the story) but get my meaning? Suzanne

Yes Merry, that sounds reasonable but then it would have to be a coincidence that 1891 has a Lily Harris, right age and born in exactly the right place - right down to the exact parish. By 1900 Lily had become Lilian Graham even though she doesn't appear to have married my grandfather - they were together for 30+years despite this. Cath

The most likely to me would be the workhouse birth, then the mum gets married and dau goes by the mum's married name on the census, but when she has her own children she says Formerly Harris. Is she ''married'' in 1901??? Merry

Have you traced her mother Emily Jane Harris back any further? Or is it that you're not sure that the birth certificate is the right one and that Emily Jane Harris is not your Lilian Augusta Harris' mum? If that makes any sense? Emma

HARRIS, Lilian Augusta 1862 September Births Strand London Middlesex Harris, Lily Augusta 1871 June Births Brighton Sussex East Sussex Harris, Lily Augusta W 1874 December Births Headington Buckinghamshire Oxfordshire Harrison, Lily Augusta 1875 September Births Christchurch (1837-1919) Hampshire Harris, Lilian Augusta 1893 March Births Cheltenham Gloucestershire Harris, Lillie Augusta S 1893 December Marriages Cardiff (1837-1974) Glamorgan Monmouthshire Harris, Lilian Augusta 1895 June Deaths Chelsea (1841-1981) Greater London London Middlesex Harris, Lilian Augusta 1895 March Births Depwade Norfolk Suffolk Harris, Lily Augusta 1900 June Marriages Islington Greater London London Middlesex Just trying to find alternatives....dont think any of these are any good (except for the obvious 1874 / Oxford one)

Cath, which is her entry on the 1901? Merry

Suzanne,Thanks for replying but I've got it already. Cath.

Have you tried getting the birth cert? Or I suppose you have already? Name: Harris, Lily Augusta W Record Type: Births Quarter: December Year: 1874 District: Headington County: Buckinghamshire Oxfordshire Volume: 3a Page: 649 Suzanne

Merry, Sorry for the confusion. I replied to your first message. I think you got the right family in 1901. I have Caroline, (Kathleen) Daisy and (Archibald) Claude all with the same age and place of birth together with Lilley (sic) in 1891. This is the family I'm going to look into further. Thanks again, Cath.

I have just read this thread!......Never give up, always pose a question on the boards, you will always get some kind generous help or suggestion as has been proved today. I wouldn't have got as far as I have without the help and confidence given by our member friends. Good hunting. Bob

Hang on.....I thought I was confirming she was the WRONG person???? Wrong middle name and born in Birmingham?????? Confused Merry