Genealogy Chat

Thank you so much Helen, Kat and Richard. You have all been so helpful. I still feel we may be uncovering a sad story here, maybe we will never find the answers, but I can see I will have to check as many burial records as I can to find out where he was buried in the end. If I can find his final resting place, I will def. put some flowers there. Kat thank you for finding that asylum, you have given me a really useful starting point. I will be in touch with them soon. Will let you know if Mum has uncovered anything else. T x

The 1901 entry for Rebecca that Nell found is probably correct, because this looks like her sister's marriage: Marriages Mar 1869 Barnes Edwin Agar Chelsea 1a 347 Kingsley Hannah Chelsea 1a 347 Richard

Nudging for now

Found this one Cumberland and Westmorland Counties Asylum Garlands Hospital Date founded: 1860 Date opened: 1862 Date closed: March 1999 Location: Carleton, near Carlisle, Cumberland Architect(s): Thomas Worthington of Manchester Layout: Corridor Cumbria Record Office, Carlisle The Castle Carlisle CA3 8UR Tel:01228 607285/607284 Fax:01228 707274 Email:[email protected] Opening Times Monday 9.00-17.00 : Tuesday 9.00-17.00 : Wednesday 9.00-17.00 : Thursday 9.00-17.00 : Friday 9.00-17.00 Noticeboard Easter opening hours Friday 14 April - Tuesday 18 April: CLOSED Wednesday 19 April: Office re-opens, 9.00 am Car parking at The Castle now NOT available for Record Office visitors Kat

There is a 100yr closure on records in asylums, just as there are for censuses and other sensitive information. Therefore if the death occured within the last 100 years you would have to go through the procedure that Sam stated in his post. However if the death occured pre 1906 , the records are divided into 2 types , open and closed files. I am visiting Norwich RO tomorrow to look at some files on my 3xG Grandma who died in an asylum near there. In this case I was able to look on their website to find which files I needed for the period I believe she was in there. I have ordered these in advance to view. The OPEN files I have ordered to view include: Masters Journal/Report Book, Register of Burials, Discharges , Departures, Transfers and Deaths Register, Admissions Register and Patients Maintainance Ledger. The CLOSED Files, for example, Reception Orders and Case books for females I will not be able to view, but I can ask , at a cost, for one of the researchers to look at them for me and copy information from them. I expect they will only transcribe from them what they consider appropriate information as obviously some of the case notes could be very distressing. Hope this helps Kat

I am sensing there is more to William than just a history of mental illness which the family covered up. His movements do not suggest he spent his life in an out of asylums, especially as he became a station master, a responsible job. Do I have a skeleton here I wonder? Must have chat with Mum tomorrow, see if she has unearthed anything else. Thank you Helen, you are a star. T xx

Possibly this is William;s wife in 1901 Camberwell London Edwin A Barnes abt 1842 Brixton, London, England Head Hannah Barnes abt 1841 Cottered, Hertfordshire, Wife Emily J Barnes abt 1879 Peckham, London, England Daughter >>>Rebecca Lovell abt 1852 Cottered, Hertfordshire, Sister census says Married. I saw the Camberwell connection, and thought that if she was Edwin's sister her surname should be Barnes, but perhaps she is his sister-in-law, and therefore Hannah's sister. This appears to be her in 1891 before her marriage: Rebecca Kingsley Age: 39 Estimated birth year: abt 1852 Relation: Servant Where Born: Cottered, Hertfordshire Civil parish: St Mary Magdalene Ecclesiastical parish: St Leonard Hastings Sussex Registration district: Hastings Sub registration district: St Mary in the Castle RG12/765 Folio: 77 Page: 41

Thanks Helen, that looks like him. He was a railway clerk boarding with the Batten family in Overton in 1881. i wonder why Rebecca wasn't there. T x

1901 Name: William Lovell Age: 39 Estimated birth year: abt 1862 Relation: Boarder Where born: Wherwell, Somerset, England Civil parish: Down St Mary Ecclesiastical parish: Down St Mary Devon Registration district: Crediton Sub-reg district: Bow RG13/2128 Folio: 33 Page: 8 Boarding with a family called Blackmore. Says married but no sign of wife. Occupation: station master in railway. nell

1891 William H Lovell Age: 29 Estimated birth year: abt 1862 Relation: Lodger Where Born: Wherwell, Hampshire, England Civil parish: Holdenhurst Ecclesiastical parish: St Clement Town: Springbourne County/Island: Hampshire Registration district: Christchurch Sub registration district: Christchurch RG12/904 Folio: 194 Page: 41 Boarding with family called Aish. Single. Occupation: Booking clerk. nell

Can't find an asylum in Cumberland anywhere, so maybe this is just family rumour. None of the family ever talked about him, so it is said, so if anyone can help me trace William through the census I would be grateful, just so I have a clue I can work on. I can't see the wood for the trees. T x

From 1881 census William Lovell abt 1862 Wherwell Boarder Fox Down, Overton, Hampshire, England Railway Clerk His Family are: Elizabeth Lovell abt 1853 Overton, Hampshire, England Daughter Mill Cottages No 13, Freefolk Manor, Hampshire, England Louisa Lovell abt 1833 Whitchurch, Hampshire, England Wife Mill Cottages No 13, Freefolk Manor, Hampshire, England Richard Lovell abt 1826 Overton, Hampshire, England Head Mill Cottages No 13, Freefolk Manor, Hampshire, England Richard Lovell abt 1861 Wherwell, Hampshire, England Son Mill Cottages No 13, Freefolk Manor, Hampshire, England Shenton Lovell abt 1866 Laverstoke, Hampshire, England Son Mill Cottages No 13, Freefolk Manor, Hampshire, England I have his marriage to Rebecca Kingsley Sept 1891. Berridge Albert Camberwell 1d 1365 Brown Louisa Jane Camberwell 1d 1365 Kingsley Rebekah Camberwell 1d 1365 Lovell William Camberwell 1d 1365 ..and found Rebecca's death: Lovell, Rebecca Camberwell Mar 1922 1d 1337 That's as much as I have to go on at the moment. Whatever Williams problems were, they may have started by the time he was 19. As there are family members know to be bi-polar (manic Depressives) I would guess it was the same for poor William.

Teresa if you post the 1881 info, someone might be able to find him later in 1891 or 1901. nell

Thanks Sam. Just wondering, as I can't find anything on him from 1881 census and his subsequent marriage. However we do have records that when he died he was buried immediately (without ceremony probably) in what mum believes to be Highray or Highway Cemetery nr Windermere, then 5 days later he had been taken to Overton in Hampshire to be buried again with his family, then....when his wife died 4 years later in Camberwell, he was buried AGAIN with her! I will get to the bottom of it if it kills me. Just trying to piece together some evidence so I know where to start looking for actual records. T x

A death in an asylum would definately have been recorded in the usual way, my great-grandad died in one. I ordered his death cert hoping it would give some clues as to why he was in there but the cause of death just said 'has diabetes'. I have contacted the County Records Office who hold the hospital records and I have got to go with proof that he is dead and they will write away to the relevant medical board to seek pernission for me to look at whey he was admitted, which will take about 3 mths. I am not impresses, he has been dead since 1935 and Julian Clary never had this trouble when he was on WDYTYA! Sam x

My Mum has an old tin at her place, which we always called the deeds box. We had never really looked in there until last weekend and were relying on scanty records in one of the family Bibles. However when we did look, there were certificates, address books, photos, and all sorts of other stuff, it was a real little treasure trove. Now, I had already collated the information we had managed to get from the first family Bible, and have been able to confirm it (loosely, certs still have to be bought) by searching census and BMD's, and I have to say, much of it is pretty accurate. Mum has busied herself this week collating ALL the records we have, which cover a large proportion of three generations of Lovells. We have found out through 1881 that my GGGUncle William, was not living at home at the age of 19, but boarding with another family nearby. This William was not talked about much, only that he married Rebecca Kingsley in Camberwell, which I found in the BMD index. Now there are some notes turned up, in another Bible, belonging to Williams brother, stating that he died in 1918 in and asylum near Windermere. I can't find it though, so the question I have is, would a death in an asylum have been recorded in the same way? T x

In a mo