Genealogy Chat

The book finished with the fact that allowing for all the variables of statistical evidence, around ¼ million underage troops served overseas, and now I can't find the bit of paper to say what % of them were killed (some were killed ''overage'' bt had served whilst under) ..........Bother.............. Merry

Hi Merry Thank you for putting the information re WW1 recruitment on this thread - it's been really useful. I'm sorry that I didn't respond before - I've been away and only got back today. Best wishes Rachel

March 1918 age for overseas service reduced to 18 years 8 months, as long as a min of 4 months training had been undertaken Aug 1918, age limit reduced again to 18 years, 6mths. Merry

September 1916 - Age for officers serving abroad increased to 19 to bring the age in line with other ranks. Merry (I'm ¾ of the way through the book!)

Another small nudge, for eveningtime...... Merry

Nudge, because it's harder to read a book AND remember it, than just to read it! Merry

Rachel (and anyone else!!) I've just read the next chapter of my book about boy soldiers. In June 1916 new rules were passed about enlistment ages. Here's the basics: Birth certs and ID cards to be seen by recruitment staff. Enlistment age for ''men'' (ie not officers) set at 18 and 19 for overseas (so, as before, despite all the arguing!) Officers to serve abroad from age 18. This age was as it had been before too, and was not increased to 19, mainly because of the exceptionally high casualty numbers, mostly amongst their more junior officer ranks. Boys underage and already overseas: aged 17 or 18, to be either brought a long way back from the front line or returned to UK service. Boys under 17 to be discharged. Generally the parents would have to send a letter and birth cert to the boy's commanding officer to initiate this. Unfortunately, these new laws did not get a lot of press coverage because of the death of Lord Kitchener, immediately before the start of the ''Big Push'' (Battle of the Somme). 1st July 1916 - First day of the Battle - worst day in UK fighting history for casualties?? Still many underage soldiers killed because there had not been time to sort out the new rules and get underage lads discharged/removed from the front line. Another problen was that many families of ''underage'' officers had wrongly interpreted the rules, thinking their sons of 18 would now be withdrawn from the front, not realising the age for officers was different. I will post again if any other bits of info crop up in the next couple of chapters! Merry

Got my link to downlad this lunchtime which isn't bad as I requested it last night! Not had a chance to have a look at it as I am at work, but will do so tonight. I've been told i have been sent ten pages and the document is over 50 pages long...! So I might have to go back for an estimate. Or try and gather some other information I need and make a day of it down at Kew. Just to Edit and say that the copies sent to download by email are excellent quality, colour copies. I spent the night with tear in my eyes reading them.

Thank you Christine

Rachel, If you have a look at my earlier post (now I've tidied it up a bit - I'd forgotten that URLs in that format always copy-paste double) you see the basic info - plus where to find more info. Christine

I haven't heard of the estimate service - what records are available and how much does it cost? Rachel

I have now ordered g-uncle's service record via the old Estimate service :o(( The idea of social pressure to make very young men join up was something that didn't really begin until 1915 - before that there was an initial rush of men and boys (it'll be over by Christmas) - generally they were looking for some excitement and travel etc etc. It was only when it was realised the war would not be over soon and there was a very real chance of not coming back that the initial rush began to dry up and conscription was introduced...... Merry

I'm sorry to take a while to reply, been busy with the children! Thank you for the information about consciption, thats really interesting. I have heard that these young men were 'forced' to volunteer through peer and social pressures. For those young men lucky to survive the memories of what they experienced must have haunted them for the rest of their lives - no wonder my Grandad didn't like to talk about it. Though being me I'm curious to see his record. I was being a bit thick this morning - I used the whole line of that link. No wonder it didn't work! I'll have to read through to see how this works. It's impossible for me to get to Kew at the moment, what with the children. Hopefully in the future more records will be available on line. Thanks for your help. Best wishes Rachel

I don't know if you can use the Digital Express service for WW1 records that are not for officers? I just went to have a look, but the PROCAT catalogue doesn't seem to be working at the moment! Merry

Rachel, I am reading a book on that very subject right now!!! At the start of WW1 there was no conscription - just volunteers. You were supposed to be 18 to join and 19 to serve overseas. However, there were generally no checks made as to the age of recruits - if you looked half old enough that would do. If your family found out you had joined underage they could apply for your discharge, but many boys who were only slightly too young and had already been sent abroad , had these requests refused. In about mid-1915 the numbers of volunteers had dropped away and it was seen that conscription would been needed. The government didn't want to introduce this, because they didn't want the German government thinking British men didn't want to volunteer! I have just got to the bit in the book where they are arguing about the age of conscripted recruits. They wanted stricter safeguards for proof of age, but some MP's were also arguing to bring the age down to 18 for overseas service.......... Ummmmmm I haven't read the next bit yet though!!! Next instalment later on............... Merry

I'm sorry to be a bit thick, but I've been looking at the National Archives website and can't see how to use this service. The link given by a member did not work. I've found what I think is my grand father's medals card - he was always a bit vague about his war service and I can never recall seeing a medal, so it would be really interesting to see his war record that's if it wasn't one of those which got destroyed in WW2. Incidently, can someone tell me the minimum age for conscription in WW1? Grandad was born in 1897, he did once say that he went in at the end of the war 'to clear up'. Though I would have thought that he would have been serving earlier. Thank you for your help Rachel

I've just gone for a copy of a report made by the Senior British officer at the POW Camp my father was in regarding the survivors. I've no Idea what it will turn up but I'll let you know when I recieve it.

LOL Pete - no, anyone can use the system if the item they want is available this way!!! and thanks Christine! I am not sure I want to be the guinea pig this time round, because I'm sure there will be (hope?) a lot more then five pages. Might go for the old fashioned Estimate route after all......... Merry

It seems to be open to anyone. This was the info I got when i e-mailed them about it... << You can order the documents through both the Digital Express Pilot and Estimate Order Form. Digital Express only allows you to order up to 5 copies of your choice from a document for £6.50. This can become very costly, if you have more than one document, and you have a limit of up to 5 pages. The up side to this is that you can receive your copies in the same day as ordering. You can read more about digital express (including target times and terms and conditions) on our website: <http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/legal/digitalexpress.htm> If you were to place an Estimate Request (Order Form), you can have up to 5 document references for £10.00 (which will go towards the copying costs). We will spend a maximum of 20 minutes identifying what you need copied from the references you have given us. If the requested material cannot be found within the allocated time or your order is not taken up, the £10 initial charge covers any work carried out in respect of the estimate and is therefore, not refundable. For more about the Order Forms, please visit the web page: <http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/recordcopying> If you have any further questions about the Record Copying Process, please do not hesitate to contact us. Yours sincerely, Nina Clews Customer Service Assistant Record Copying Department The National Archives <http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/recordcopying>www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/recordcopying >> Christine

merry, Is this TNA Digital Express Trial open to all or just a few esteemed researchers. I would certainly be prepared to invest a few quid to find the details of my great grandfather's WW1 service record. I have previously downloaded his medal card. Unlike your ancestor, mine was a lowly private. Perhaps that's why I have not been asked to trial the site!!! Pete