Genealogy Chat

Absolutely I agree that the ideal body to return those papers would be Lambeth, but seeing as they didnt even manage to find Herta's death (bit feeble that email - 'we didnt see her cos she was buried over the border in Camberwell' - erm, a stone's throw - not a galaxy away, and anyway, did they sit there just going through indexes looking for deaths in their little area? - I dont think they are that bothered either finding her rellies or returning the stuff. They are busy people and this would just be an expensive and irritating aside for them.

Just thought i'd wish you luck for the phone call tonight. I have been following this link since it first started but couldn't join in as i'm not very good/quick at searching as not been a member for a long time. Jennie

Debby I take your points. However, it seems from this thread that the Archives have no plans to pursue this matter. I personally dont think that a phone call from a local Newspaper in England will be any less shocking than a phone call from an individual. Athena is hardly likely to say 'So, Heinz, tell us how you felt when Herta was killed in an Air Raid?' And I dont think, in this particular case, that a letter is any better than a phone call. After all, this may not be the right man! The shock/delight/surprise is going to be the same, however the information is rendered. AS to ownership of the contents of the suitcase, I THINK I am right that legally, letters belong to the person who wrote them (But not 100% sure). The rest of the stuff belongs to Herta's next of kin - Henry may know whether any of her kin survived. My father was engaged to be married before he met my mother. The engagement was broken off by mutual agreement. I view this as a mildly interesting fact about my father's life. It does not cause me any distress at all and doubt if it would if it came to light today and I hadnt previously known about it. Olde Crone

Ive just found this website, dont know if anyone has been on it, ive just skimmed through its jewishwebindex* com

Still checking in from time to time this evening and watching this thread....but I can't stay up much longer, got to go to bed (I'm ahead of UK time) an my eyelids are dropping.....will check in first thing in the morning to see what happened ref: the phone call. Goodnight all,, Karen

I have to say while I admire your teamwork and eagerness to reunite the items with their rightful owners, I tend to agree with Jeanette and Patrick. This should really be handled by the newspaper or the Archives. Also, I don't think a phone call is the correct way to go about it - that is very intrusive - if this is his son and DIL, they may not even know about Herta. At least with a letter, they have time to digest the information and think about how they want to tackle the situation with Heinz. These letters etc have been lost for 60 years, a couple more weeks won't hurt surely? Debby

Well Patrick having been following this thread I think you will find that with a great deal of thought and good intentions a democratic vote was taken, be it right or wrong, with no thought of glory and now that you have made your point let it rest. Well done everyone Norah

I have just spent quite a long time reading all the postings and I have to say it is all very exciting!!! I too, like most people have my own opinions. Although I do believe these items should be returned to their rightful owner it does pose the question - who is the rightful owner? Herta never did marry Heinz so he was never her next of kin although some might argue that the letters he wrote to her should be returned to him or his family. As for the other items, they clearly belong to the Lobenstiens, don't they?? Or, is the rightful owner now the Lambeth archives........would they be prepared to part with such a great collection? It might be a good idea to find out first if they would be prepared to hand them over...... Deb

Old Crone, I too have no wish to have a slanging match with anydody. You yet again accuse of me being insulting. I have not suggested anywhere that the information should be witheld from the gentleman, quite the opposite. Please read what I write before casting aspersions. You are obviously all hell bent on pursuing this matter by telephone, I can only reiterate I find that approach remarkable, to say the least. I will leave you all to it.

Jeanette I did of course say that Patrick is perfectly entitled to have an opinion - just dont think there was any need to express it so offensively. OC

Just because a person doesn't post regularly doesn't make their opinion less valid. His comment about people doing it for their own glory.....and mine as it happens.....is how it appears from the outside looking in. My question still hasn't been answered.....has either the archives or the newspaper been given the chance of contacting Mr Boley themselves? And if not, why not? I'll walk away from this now as it seems the decision has already been made. I do actually wish you the best of luck! Jeanette x

about midnight i think Athena said ( our time)

Ok, the die is cast - when is this phone call happening, so I can check in?

Can i point out one thing? His phone number is available to all and sundry, if he didnt want to be contacted his phone number would be private and unlisted i would also like to add( probably talking bull poo now as well) but Anne Frank was a heroine of mine from when i was at school, whos to say Herta wont be the next Anne Frank of our kids generation, it would be fantastic to have a closure on this story and i believe he has a right to know what happened to his future wife, he may have read about the air raids in the papers but never knew the outcome, or he may have ben told but always wondered what happened to her belongings

Well, Patrick may indeed have joined the same day as me, but I don't recognise his name as a regular poster. My comment about him being a new member was directed at his unpleasant comments that people on this Board are only doing this 'for the glory', assuming that if he was a member of longstanding, he would know the hard and unselfish work that many members do for other members on a daily basis. The people who have been involved in this search are the people who are on these boards every day, helping people find their ancestors. Not much glory to be had there, and quite often not even a thankyou. Of course, any search that anyone does into their family history, is intrusive in a way and I am impressed by the majority of members who 'withdraw their services' when a search does appear to be too intrusive, or they feel that the information may be misused to the detriment of a living person. I dont want to get into a slanging match either, and in fact, wasnt aware that I was! Olde Crone

Patrick, I really cant see who would be glory seeking? Everyone just wants to see a happy ending - how would they receive any glory in this. And the thing is would a 'proper authority' even bother to put pen to paper over this - I doubt it.

Hi OC Errrrr......don't look now but it appears Patrick joined on the same day as you!!!!!! Although I do think Patrick's posts have been a little abrasive, I do believe his heart is in the right place. Because of the way his replies have been worded people may have missed the point that he is trying to put across........that he believes the suitcase should be returned but by using the the original channels, ie. the archives or the newspaper, in the first instance. If neither are interested, then a carefully worded letter to be sent by a GR member. And I must say I am inclined to agree. Please let's not turn this into a slanging match just because people have differing views Jeanette x

Patrick I am not a young woman, but still not quite as old as Mr Boley. However I can tell you I would be ABSOLUTELY b*****y FURIOUS, if someone had found information such as this about me and then decided I was too old, frail, dotty etc, or 'might get upset' and then withheld that information. It is insulting to ASSUME that an 85 year old man is 'too old, or too frail'. From what little we know of him, he must have been tough. But as, I said, let his family decide. Glory seeking? I guess you must be a fairly new member, there is no glory seeking here - who is going to get the glory, and who from??? You are perfectly entitled to your opinion. So is Mr Boley. Olde Crone

I quote : ' It is insulting to say he should be protected from hurt ' May I ask why ? I entirely agree , ' How dare any of us decide what is best for a stranger ' , a wonderful sentiment. It is such a shame that you have all decided to do just that. I made a very simple observation : The family should be contacted in writing , not by a member of Gr but by some suitable authority, that is the right, proper and decent thing to do. You are glory seeking, it is shameful, absolutely bloody shameful

I've been following this thread with great interest and am reminded of a similar story which became a book called 'Hannah's Suitcase'. I wonder if any of you have read it? It's a truly wonderful story about a suitcase that was on display in a Holocaust Museum in Poland and was sent on loan to a museum in Japan. The suitcase had the name Hannah Brady painted on the side. A techer in Japan and her students decided to find what they could about Hannah. It was amazing what they found, family photos of Hannah, paintings that she had done, but, sadly, they also found out that she had not survived Auschwitz. They did, however find a brother of Hannah who had survived and was living in Canada. When contacted he was overjoyed to find out that so many people had cared about the fate of his sister and that her memory was immortalized in a book. Margaret