Genealogy Chat

Phoenix & Merry good morning and thanks for your info and thoughts. Will do some more sleuthing when I get home today, have to be at work soon! nell

When I said you would need the death cert, I really meant in case you needed to eliminate that person! What if the death cert is for a child? Merry

Nell, did you look for him on Origins today? There's a Samuel Timbers, MS to a surgeon in Little Walsingham. He's 15. I think the reference is HO 107/772/14/33 Page 60. Ancestry didn't throw up any thing for that ref, but this looks like the entry: View Record Samuel Gimbers abt 1826 birthplace Little Walsingham Norfolk

Phoenix thanks for looking. I am sure when you come across a Samuel Timbers you'll think of me!

Samuel wasn't buried in Reepham, Hackford or Whitwell. I've just checked my lovingly copied transcripts. But there are some Timbers in Reepham. I wish I could remember why I was interested in Timbers in Reepham & Sall. I think that one of them must have married a Rayner, but they must be in a pre Cambrian level of nitebooks as there's nothing on the puter.

But will it help? Suppose it doesn't say 'gentleman's butler' (presumably as opposed to 'yobbo's butler'), it still doesn't mean it WASN'T him. It would be fab if it said 'father of ' on it, wouldn't it. It's just typical that of all the illegitimate children's certs I have, the one where the father is named is untraceable. Perhaps he didn't mind being on the birth cert as he KNEW he was going to die fairly soon!!! nell

You know you are going to have to get the death cert!!!! Merry

Oooh, thanks for that Merry, I was going a bit doolally. It's the heat! So I'm still no further forward in finding this bloke. Mary was born 30 April and her birth registered 12th May. I bet it is the chap who died the same year!!!! I wonder if he promised Elizabeth marriage? She wasn't a very bad girl, there was an 11-year gap between the births of her two out-of-wedlock children, and she got a husband in the end. nell

He didn't have to sign the cert.....he had to be there though.....otherwise it would say nothing about the father.....just a blank........ So.....a man was with her!! Someone!!!!! lol (presumably someone who looked like a gentleman's butler?!!) Merry

'Pamal' is Parmal on the census image, but the chap I found registered in Aylsham says born in Sall and that's where there were various Timbers. This one is an ag lab. I'm wondering if the chap on the birth cert was elevated to 'gentleman's butler' cos it sounded better, but can't understand why he didn't have to sign his name. This Elizabeth is SO frustrating, but at least she named her first child Octavian, so he has been easy to trace, even though he doesn't have a dad..... nell

Phoenix Just seen your message off to check now! Merry Yes, I know. He mightn't even have been born in Norfolk, but just there at the right time to father a child. He may have been sacked for getting the staff preggers and taken up another career, dratted man! nell

Merry and Olde Crone She is down on the birth cert as Elizabeth Grey so wasn't passing herself off as married. BUT she is the only signatory (if you count X, lol!) on the cert. Curiouser and curiouser...

I can't find the rest of the shoemakers family on the following census, to see if they thought he was dead, too! If it is a different chap (and he IS alive in 1961) and he really was a gentleman's butler, then he might be anywhere! Gentlemen had a bad habit of travelling a lot :o(( Merry

Have you checked this for 1851: Pamal Timbers abt 1823 location relationship city Norfolk He's down as male.

Unless she lied to the Registrar.... OC

Don't forget, he would have had to be with her when she registered the birth for Mary, as they were not married, so she can't have completely made him up......(unless she took an imposter!) Merry

Penelope Thanks, I'd spotted him - but as he was born 1848 I don't think he would be fathering a child in 1859! Baptism on the IGI just says MARY GREY Birth: 30 APR 1859 Norton, Norfolk Christening: 17 APR 1864 Hardley, Norfolk, England Parents: Mother: ELIZABETH GREY C013212 1715 - 1875 The birthdate ties in with the birth cert, though she seems to have been baptised a bit late! nell

Oohhh....Wormegay is only about 8 miles from me ! Will have a look at the 1841 - but nothing 'jumping' out. There must be another Samuel Timbers somewhere - marriages View Record Margaret Churchill 1867 Oct-Nov-Dec Yarmouth (1837-1924) Norfolk View Record Elizabeth Hunn 1867 Oct-Nov-Dec Yarmouth (1837-1924) Norfolk View Record James Laws 1867 Oct-Nov-Dec Yarmouth (1837-1924) Norfolk View Record Samuel Timbers 1867 Oct-Nov-Dec Yarmouth (1837-1924) Norfolk ********************** View Record Abigail Clifford 1855 Apr-May-Jun Yarmouth (1837-1924) Norfolk View Record Caroline Cockell 1855 Apr-May-Jun Yarmouth (1837-1924) Norfolk View Record James Raymes 1855 Apr-May-Jun Yarmouth (1837-1924) Norfolk View Record Samuel Peacock Timbers 1855 Apr-May-Jun Yarmouth (1837-1924) Norfolk ********************* View Record Sarah Brett 1844 Oct-Nov-Dec Walsingham Norfolk View Record Samuel Lake 1844 Oct-Nov-Dec Walsingham Norfolk View Record Robert Sadler 1844 Oct-Nov-Dec Walsingham Norfolk View Record Samuel Peacock Timbers 1844 Oct-Nov-Dec Walsingham Norfolk ********************** Birth Reg Name: Samuel Peacock Timbers Year of Registration: 1848 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar District: Walsingham County: Norfolk Volume: 13 Page: 356 (click to see others on page)

Nell, it can happen - I have an ancestor who went from Cow Dealer/Farmer to being a registrar! Could you try and find a baptism for the children and see if that gives any clues at all?

Hi thanks for looking, I am puzzled as the chap is a cordwainer (ie shoemaker) so becoming a gentleman's butler seems a bit of a job shift. I've found a likely chap who was bonrn 1838 but I've checked and he was born and died in Aylsham reg district which is north of Norwich and some way away from Norton and Langley where Eliz. was born. I'm wondering if she made him up? She's a real pain, never on the census with either of her children, who were with their grandparents or aunts/uncles - but never together!!! In later life she came over respectable and settled down to married life in Yarmouth with a labourer called Thomas Baxter from Wormegay. nell