Genealogy Chat

yeah - I'd say its Rich cant make out first name but his middle name looks something like Devridge

LOL Zoe! There are two Mary Musgrave deaths in bath between 1841 and 1851, though I'm aware there is another couple George and Sarah Musgrave (shoemaker) in the Bath area, but otherwise, these deaths could be TMM's wife and daughter (maybe he murdered them over the stamps thing!! lol) Merry

I suppose giving Ann's details in that way, saved him mentioning she was illegitimate? I saw the postmaster's name earlier......could it be Mr Rich? There's a painting of TMM here (!!): http://www.bathpostalmuseum.org/musgrave.html Merry

I wonder could the connection be Ann's mothers family unless we're 100% certain it was mary who wrote the letters Perhaps Mary disappears after 1841 as he threw her out over the whole stamp thing. Of course she could just marry and move out but my version is much more dramatic Z

okay - quick rough transcription ..... 'I give everything I've got to my daughter Ann Musgrave who was born roughly about 9th November 1822 in ???? Cornwall' only other names are two executors - first name I cant read but he's the Chief Clerk at the post office and the second one is George Avery ??? of Devonport, Surveyor of the Bath Post Office witnesses are Edward Turner - also something to do with Post Office and CHarles Tucker of Oxford Terrace Bath

oooh! I wonder if it will say any more???!! When you see some of the other assumptions made so far (TMM's parents married at Leeds, Stamps put on by Ann, even though she wasn't the only daughter etc....you begin to wonder!) It's very annoying that in 1841 TMM had a son called William, aged 4 months on the census. I rushed to bath BMD because they have mum's maiden names transcribed from 1837! But he wasn't registered!!!! (You would have thought the post master would have done so???) Merry

eek - I've bought it I'll be able to transcribe on my journey home now

Hmmmmmmmm..........1840?! He seems to get about a bit....! (did you read all that stuff Carol Posted? Surprised he had time for any relationships!) Merry

I'm willing to purchase Thomas Moore musgraves will (which is on Documents Online) if we don't already have a proper copy - just to see if there is anyone other than Ann mentioned Won't be able to do it til I get home from work though - which will be about 7.30ish

OK, I have found this, which may or may not be significant: 12 Sept 1840 Mortgage (Insurance Policy) Assignment between 1. Thomas Moore Musgrave of Bath, gent, and 2.Mary Hamilton Nesbitt Ferguson, wife of Robert Ferguson of Raith Kirkcaldy. I was just wondering - all these Mary's? OC

You could pop along and look at it!!! Wonder why he didn't leave anything to his other surviving children? Son, Charles, died in Melborne in 1864, according to TMM's grave stone. Merry

Merry I have found another version of the Bastardy Order, held by a Solicitor in Helston, mother and child not named, but same father's name and sponsor, so probably the same child...probably... OC

Ohhhh why can't they ALL have unusual names!!! The Bastardy thing says the mother was Ann Parkins Edwards. This Ann was born in Falmouth in 1804. In 1841 in Falmouth there is an Ann Edwards living alone, aged 35, occupation ''spinster'' lol Wonder if that's her?? Maybe not......No way to tell..... I think the daughter, Ann, may have been brought up in Camberwell (paid for by the postmaster?)......and this is how she knows the Colyer family. However, then we have the wrong daughter licking the stamps! We need Ann in Bath in 1840, or we need his other daughter Mary to be friends with the Colyers! Oh, flippin' 'eck! Merry

Hmmm....he obviously had regular contact/knowledge of Ann, for her to suddenly be living with him and using his name. So - fond of her mother, was he? Did he perhaps, marry her mother in Cornwall at some point, her mother died and he took Ann on? And Mary was a live in, not legally a wife? Or a second wife? OC

Here is the baptism of the illegitimate Ann!! ANN EDWARDS Female -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Event(s): Birth: 09 NOV 1822 Christening: 03 DEC 1824 Falmouth, Cornwall, England -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parents: Father: THOMAS MOORE MUSGRAVE Mother: ANN EDWARDS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Messages: Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. Merry

Good question Crone........esp as she was supposed to be ''at home'' with Thomas the postmaster in 1840, when she used the stamps to send her letters! Maybe it was really his dau, Mary, who posted the letters (the girl on the 1841 census) and Ann only reappeared after wife, Mary's death? Between 1841 and 1851 two Mary Musgraves died in Bath district, so I'm guessing that's the wife and the legitimate daughter. I had previously thought Ann might be masquerading as Mary in 1841! It doesn't help that Ann might have been known as Edwards in 1841.....How many Ann Edwards might there be????!!! Merry

Where was Ann Musgrave in 1841? James Colyer in 1841 - my James often appear as Thomas. Believe it or not, the two names look very similar in florid script. OC

Well merry looks like museum never had any proof of Marriage of Thomas Moore to Mary but think they did live together was the daughter you found born in Cornwall called Ann and do you think it's the same person everything was left to. The museum said if we have any questions we can email [email protected].

From this site: http://www.gbstamps(.)com/gbcc/gbcc_bath_postal_mus.html (remove brackets) ''In 1840, the then Postmaster of Bath, Thomas Moore Musgrave, received supplies of the new Penny Black on May 1st — five days ahead of the stamp’s official first day of use. Musgrave’s daughter, Anne, (so legend has it) was aware of the arrival of these novelties and, a day later, having decided to write some letters to a few friends, thought it might be fun to attach to each of them one of these new stamps. Musgrave did not dare cancel the stamps in Bath (thought he did apply a date stamp, as shown in the image on the left), but a copy has survived with the stamp cancelled on arrival in London with a tombstone post-paid cancellation.'' So, maybe the Colyer's were just friends? Merry

Looks as if Thomas Musgrave was a naughty boy in Falmouth and his daughter Ann who he left everything to, but doesn't seem to be around when Thomas' wife is alive (in 1841), was illegitimate! R Rogers and Son, Helston, solicitors BOROUGH OF HELSTON OVERSEERS OF THE POOR Bastardy bonds and depositions FILE - [no title or date] - ref. RO/4243 Scope and Content Ann Parkins Edwards of Falmouth, residing in Helston, single now with child. Bond: Thos. Moore Musgrave of Falmouth, esq. (father), Fras. Pender of Falmouth, gent. £100. Oooh-errr! Doesn't help the stamp problem though! Merry