Genealogy Chat

OK, so he was born Feb 1850 and was called Keen (his mum's surname, so that seems reasonable). Mrs K married in Q3 1850 to Mr Wallis........Rebecca changed her name to Wallis........ Where is John Thomas Keen in 1861? Merry

Sorry, I just read the initial message again!! So......John Thomas Keen (?) was born two years after the death of Mr Keen and shortly before(??????????) Mrs Keen married Mr Wallis. Is that right? John Thomas' name would then be Keen because that was his mum's name at the time?????? (which Olde Crone said at the beginning) It would only be if he was born AFTER the Keen to Wallis marriage that we would be surprised, surely? Merry

hi again thanks for trying, I have a birth date for him of 21/2/1850 christened 17/3/1850 I know thats right because we have related contacts , but I cannot find his birth cert to confirm this keep getting the wrong one. his name is John Thomas Keen born 1850 St leonards Shoreditch

and what was his surname? Merry

Sorry, we crossed! Earlier you said you hadn't found them on the 1851 yet, so how do you know John Thomas isn't there? When was he born? Merry

For what it's worth in 1871 Rebecca and Mary were born in ''City'' not Shoreditch. I assume Rebecca changed her name because she was still a child when she got a stepfather, but Mary wasn't, so she didn't? So......where does John Thomas fit in? Merry

sorry Merry what I should have said he isnt on the census with them in 1851 for some reason

John Thomas (surname??) married in 1869, but earlier you said ''John Thomas not born yet''......when wasn't he born yet? it looks like you are saying in 1861 he wasn't born yet, but that can't be right? Merry

Merry on 1861 mistranscribed William Wallace Head 1812 Middlesex Elizabeth Wallace 1812 Middlesex Rebecca Wallace 1848 Middlesex Ann Wallace 1856 Shoreditch on 1871 Elizabeth Wallace 1812 Shoreditch Mary A Keen 1839 Middlsex Annie E Wallace 1856 Shoreditch Rebecca Wallace 1847 Shoreditch

Oops.....found the 1861 Wallace! William Wallace abt 1812 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Head Shoreditch Middlesex Elizabeth Wallace abt 1812 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Wife Shoreditch Middlesex Rebecca Wallace abt 1848 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Daughter Shoreditch Middlesex Ann Wallace abt 1856 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Daughter Shoreditch Middlesex Merry

I can't find them in 1861 or 1871 with the details you have given?????? I guess they are mistranscribed, but as I don't know where they lived I am stuck! I need to see the pages to get my head round it! Merry

thanks so much for your replies , the only problem is its making me more confused if thats possible. Merry Remember that Ivy or Joy Woman and her son John Thomas Keen this is them. She married a John Samuel Keen in 1834 had a Daughter Elizabeth in 1835 another Daughter Mary Ann in 1838 another Daughter Elizabeth in 1840 and a Daughter Rebecca in 1847 Husband dies in 1848 she is living with a William Wallis on the 1861 census( so far cannot find them on the 1851 census) with Rebeca Wallis age 13 who I believe is the above Rebecca born 1847 and a Ann Wallis age 5 who I believe is her new Daughter by her new Husband William Wallis who she married in 1850 John Thomas no sign of on the 1871 census is Elizabeth Wallis(Keen) age 59 Mary Ann Keen age 32 Rebecca Wallis age 24 Anne Wallis age 15 William the husband died in 1867 still no trace of John Thomas who then married in 1869 and cannot find him on any census before or after PLEASE SOMEBODY SORT ME OUT

I don't know if I'm following this correctly??????? Are you saying.... Woman has children in wedlock (lets say Smith) Mr Smith dies Mrs Smith take on a ''lodger'', Mr Brown Mrs Smith has a baby which is given the name Smith (ie his mum's current surname). Mr Smith has been dead two years. Mrs Smith married the lodger, so she becomes Mrs Brown Mrs Brown has further children called Brown On the next census, the most recent children are called Brown, the earlier legitimate children of Mr Smith have adopted their step-dad's name and are called Brown, but the child born between the marriages is still called Smith. Is that what we are playing with? Sometimes I am glad we are not related, Val! Merry

Hi Valerie Just thought I'd let you know you're not alone with these strange goings on...I have the niece of my grt grandmother marrying a chap in 1942, then he died in 1944, she then had a son in 1946 and gave him her dead husbands surname (registered with it)! Obviously there is no way it could have been his son! I think perhaps it is done to hide the fact that the child was illegitimate. I've yet to order this son's birth cert - but it will be interesting to see what she has said for who the father was...probably left it blank! Oh - and on another branch from that same surname I have a widow with children who remarried (legally) in the late 1870s and is found on the 1881 census with new hubby and her youngest son - all of whom were using the surname of this new hubby. A few years later hubby No. 2 died and both mother and son reverted back to their original surname of hubby No.1. for some reason or other. What confusion that was trying to find them!

Night Night...me going too

Heather that sounds like what has happened here. Jean I have had terrible trouble getting back on here its sooooo sloooow Yes maybe I was never born ??? think I will go to bed now goodnight everyone.

I'm having trouble with this site too. Heather

With all these families with wrong names, when we get up to the present day, we might all find out we're not who we thought we were... LOL Me for one.......my grandfather's name is not the one he started with in 1871. Don't know what's the matter with this board...it's taking me ages to go from one window to another. Jean

I spent ages trying to add such a child to my family tree, didn't realise that you could change the child's surname to be different from her father's, lol. Husband and wife had parted, wife had a child by another man but registered her child in her current surname which was the name of husband but he wasn't the father so child had a surname that wasn't her mother's maiden name or her father's surname. Heather

I cannot find him on any census with his family at all , its as if he was made up.If I didnt have his marriage cert I would think I imagined him.