Genealogy Chat

Or you could invest £7 on getting Julia's marriage cert to see who her father was. nell

Jeanne Sorry to keep repeating myself, but you don't KNOW that the mother was Louisa. You only know that Julia appears 1901 with George Anstead as her father. 1901 also says that Julia was born in St Geo in the East, which was a registration district in its own right until 1926 when it was renamed Stepney. Since you don't KNOW that Louisa was her mother, I would stop worrying about Julia Bradford etc, especially as her birth reg is out by 4 years. I think your efforts would best be served looking for George Anstead in 1891 to see whether Julia's details are the same, and then looking for her cert, otherwise you could be spending a lot of money. It costs £3 a time to check certs. nell

Julia could be one of the following: Julia Bradford b1880 Strand Julia Bradford b 1884 Shoreditch Julia Collins b 1878 Mile End Louisa Bradford b 1880 B Green Louisa Bradford b 1877 Mile End Louisa Ayres b 1875 Pancras I could send for them all with checks, for the mother being Louisa ? (formerly Bradford). Her marriage cert to Arthur Gritton states Julia Anstead, father George Anstead - Carman I really appreciate all your input in helping me with this. Jeanne

Nell - you've convinced me that 1881 lot I found are red herrings. If you look at the 81 and 91 for hensted and hunstead, it looks to me like Julia 1880 =Louisa 1880. What do you think?

What evidence do you have that Julia is Eliza's sister? As I said before, you only have the 1901 evidence which fits what you have listed from the certs. You might find all kinds of marriages in the index, but I'd want to sort out the children first. 1901 clearly states that George is father to all the children. Now, he may be Eliza's father too, in which case her cert should state George Anstead not George Ayres and she should have Anstead as surname. But she could equally be his step-daughter and just listed as daughter under his surname because that's what lots of folk did in those days. You have no proof that Louisa was married to George Anstead or George Ayres or anyone else, just that she appears as a married woman on Eliza and Rebecca;s birth certs. Again, you have nothing to connect George Ayres or George Anstead other than their christian names. I am quite convinced that the Marylebone lot are red herrings. A shoe/boot maker from Bucks in 1891 living in a relatively posh area doesn't become a labourer born in Whitechapel living in a poorer area in 1901. nell

Hi Jools The trouble with that family, is that Louisa is still alive in 1901 and mine died in 1898 at the Raine Street Workhouse Infirmary. Jeanne

Helen I keep coming back to same theory. I have been through the entries at the FRC from 1855 to 1865 for her birth and the only possibility turned out not to be her. Try: 1881 - Hunsted 1891 - Henstead What do you think about Julia actually being Louisa's sister ? Jeanne

hi just found a death for louisa Anstead in 1898 st george london, birth 1858.

UPDATE - WE'VE RULED THIS FAMILY OUT AS BEING THE WRONG ONE. Long shot here, but could this be George in 1881 (ages of children would tie in with a marriage to Louisa in 1874) George ANSTEAD Head M Male 27 Great Marlow, Buckingham, England Boot Maker Louisa ANSTEAD Wife M Female 26 Marylebone Amelia ANSTEAD Daur Female 6 Marylebone Lydia ANSTEAD Daur Female 4 Marylebone Maude ANSTEAD Daur Female 1 Marylebone Source Information: Dwelling 78 Boston Pl Census Place London, Middlesex, England Family History Library Film 1341034 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 0155 / 66 Page Number 16

If you look at my previous entries you will see I found a George Anstead bootmaker, born Bucks, living Marylebone with wife Louisa in 1891 census. But I am sure this isn't right as none of his details match those of George Anstead in 1901. Plus, all the daughters were born in St Geo East which is a distinctly different area from St Marylebone, several miles apart and a different social mix. nell

Ahh - thought you did as you said 'The marriage cert of Louisa Cooper & George Ayres puts her as a 'minor' and him of full age.'

Jools, I don't have Louisa Cooper marrying George Ayres - only George Anstead.

Yes sorry, my error it should be marriage cert, not birth cert. The occupation of George Anstead on the marriage cert to Louisa Cooper is, Bootmaker and the residence just says Marlebone for them both. George Anstead's father is Edwin Anstead, a Carman. Louisa Cooper's father is George Cooper (deceased) a House Painter. I have found Anstead's from Great Marlow in Bucks, boot and shoe makers. Edwin (1813) and Mary Ann (1814) are on a couple of census, but non showing a George. I found a Louisa Cooper aged 11 on the 1871 census in an assylum for fatherless children in Croydon. Of course that would only put her at 13 or 14 should she be the Louisa that married George Anstead in 1874. So, it can't be her can it ? I am waiting for the marriage certs for Louisa Cooper to both Frederick & Frank Ayres - been waiting 3 weeks now!! Jeanne

OK Without Julia's birth cert you do not know that Louisa was her mother. Perhaps the scenario is Louisa whatever her name was had a child called Eliza Ayres by a man called George Ayres. George died. Louisa met George Anstead who was a widower with a daughter called Julia. George and Louisa had a child together - Rebecca Anstead - before Louisa died. nell

Hm. Without finding Julia with her mother in 1881 or 1891 we can't get Louisa Bradford/Anstead/Ayres birthplace to find her on earlier censuses.

hi , is this them , 1901 census st george london George Anstead age 48 widower Eliza , Rebecca ,Julia and Emma.

1891 No Julia Anstead born within 5 years of 1879 in index.

1891 I can only find one George Anstead with wife Louisa, but he is a shoemaker living in St Marylebone and none of the children are called Julia. He also gives his birthplace as Buckinghamshire. nell

1901 16 Winterton Bldgs, St George in the East, Stepney, London. Registration district: St George in the East Sub-registration district: St George North George Anstead 48 general labourer [another word after this which I can't read, but could be docks as there are other dock workers on the page] widower b Whitechapel Julia Anstead 22 daur charwoman housework at home b. St Geo. E. Eliza Anstead 13 daur b. St Geo. E. Rebecca Anstead 5 daur b. St Geo. E. Emma Anstead 1 daur b. St Geo. E. Eliza is not listed as Ayres.

So, Louisa's children are in chronological order: 1879-1880 Julia Anstead - you cannot find her birth. She marries Arthur Gritton [is this Berty's brother and should it be Berty's marriage cert rather than birth cert on which Elizabeth Anstead appears?] 1887 Eliza Elizabeth Ayres mother: Louisa Ayres, formerly Bradford. Father George Ayres. Same daughter says she is Elizabeth Anstead on Berty Gritton's birth cert (who is he? and when was this? Do you mean a birth cert or a marriage cert?] 1895 Rebecca Louisa Anstead mother Louisa Anstead, formerly Bradford. Father George Anstead. You haven't found Louisa Bradford marriage to any Ayres or Anstead. 1874 - Louisa Cooper -m- George Anstead 1882 - Louisa Landon Cooper -m- Frank Ayres 1887 - Louisa Cooper -m- Frederick Ayres 1898 Louisa Anstead dies aged 40. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My first thought is that there are unusually big gaps for that time between the births of the daughters. Most of my relatives have children every 18 months to 3 years. There's 6 or 7 years between Julia and Eliza and 8 years between Eliza and Rebecca. Secondly, what does it say in father's column on the marriage certs for these daughters? What occupation does it have for him and what is George Ayres/George Anstead's occupation on the birth certs? I'm off to have a look at the census now, to see if that sheds any light.