Genealogy Chat

Added by Glen in Tinsel Knickers on 25/07/2006 19:13:18 Hi all Hope everyone is ok. Re the comments by Paul and having the answers,my view (and that is all it is) isn't one shared by Paul. I couldn't have all the answers because i don't know all the questions.Many times i have only commented because i have seen a post on the thread. When we start to look it isn't always obvious that we will have anything but two outcomes,one the 'fairytale' of being welcomed by our birth families,or the harsh reality of having the door slammed firmly shut in our faces. This thread made me realise that there are a million possible outcomes between the two extremes. No one can say they know all there is to know,but by sharing,thinking and looking at the circumstances that we all find ourselves in,i feel that i have a better understanding of my feelings and those of my birth family.It has only worked out that way because i have read the threads,thought about what i have read,and then used that as i think best. The things posted aren't always meant to be answers,but then again there aren't always direct questions posed either,but by sharing perhaps we have a better chance of understanding our feelings and the feelings of our families,both adopteive and birth. Glen Added by Bacardi Slice No Ice on 25/07/2006 19:20:12 hi every one had trouble with my puta so just catching up dorothy i think in all familys we are going to get the response you had from your son,i actually had it from my birth family,when other birth relatives got intouch with me,but its there hang up and they all mean just as much to me even if they dont to each other love bacardi xx Added by Jess bow bag Bobbin Dog on 25/07/2006 19:39:41 Paul- the purpose of this thread -and the 4 before it- was to be a place where an adoptee could share thoughts and feelings with other people that knew what it felt like, NOT to provide hard and fast answers. A 'normal' person ( what is one of those!) simply cannot understand the feeling that being adopted evokes...its a place you have to be to understand , and hopefully this thread has provided a place for likeminded people to share what they feel with people that do understand and 'feel ' the same feelings. Tracing you adoptive roots is like a journey - but there is no map to guide you, signpost maybe, but until you arrive at that spot you have no idea where the sign will point, or even if its a dead end. '' I have the answers but they are my answers and that's the problem they are not your answers,'' < as long asyou are comfy with where you are at on YOUR journey - that is all that matters. I'm curious now- tell us more please! jess x Added by Margaret Rider on 25/07/2006 21:31:08 A good response Jess.

Added by Helen Hughes on 25/07/2006 12:27:42 Thank you Margaret I think you are right - we shouldnt be made to feel guilty - but I and from reading these threads - many others so often do. My mum and I are very close - she loves me and will and does support me - but she also has her own insecurities - which is only natural. I have always wondered if my mum and dad's over protectivenes - (always the first kids to have to go to bed, not allowed to roam as far as the others etc -) has resulted from sheer fear, they had lost one child, been told they could never have more - and they were frightened of losing another. I dont know - but it does seem possible - and this fear would colour the way they felt about me searching wouldnt it. I often find that even though I understand my feelings are groundless and irrational - I still feel them! Why should I expect my mum to be any different? She has as much right to be a neurotic bag of nerves as I do! Also, as a mum myself now, I have to say that I would allow another woman access to my children over my dead body! My mum loves me as much as I love my girlies - why would she want to share - I certainly dont! Not meaning to rant, hope this didnt sound unfriendly, big developments on the search just now and I am really emotional. Helenxx Added by Margaret Rider on 25/07/2006 13:24:11 Hello Helen No it didn't sound unfriendly in anyway, you were just expressing your feelings. Its over 60yrs since I've been adopted and have searched, found, searched found over so many years and also rejected! I do believe however that I am more relaxed in the way that I view things now as to when I was a young mother myself. Searching is such a difficult undertaking and can bring in a lot of extra happiness but also a lot of pain and which both can be felt by your own family. This is something that you should think about very carefully - to be honest I wish I had perhaps considered the feelings of my own grown up family a little more than my longing to have all the answers. Added by Paul Wright on 25/07/2006 14:12:29 Hi All, Does anyone who currently work for Social Services or an Adoption Agency or, has retired from a likewise position read this thread. The thread certainly contains all the mixed emotions you can encounter. I have the answers but they are my answers and that's the problem they are not your answers, So I see advice which is normally well thought out and very considered, swing both ways. Hope I haven't offended anyone. Just curious? Paul Added by Margaret Rider on 25/07/2006 16:11:42 Hello Paul Just wondering whether you work or have worked for either the social services or an adoption agency? Hope you don't mind me asking. Margaret Added by Eileen Bowman on 25/07/2006 17:19:37 Paul is right in some ways - the answers are specific to each person as an individual - however, reading other peoples' worries, experiences, feelings etc. does help to clarify ones own feelings. You can say to yourself, 'supposing I was faced with this or that situation in my search, would it make me feel the same way, or would I feel differently' By this means one can sort of rehearse, or try out, a feeling without the pain. If it happens to you, then you can think 'this was what x.... or y... on this site had to deal with' I am sure that it does help, in the same way as we are told reading literature helps us to prepare for life situations. As for the actual searching being something that is hurtful to your adoptive parents, I found that when I did it I wanted to keep the two 'mothers' apart totally. I told my adoptive mother very little about my other family. This was hard on her as she was very curious to know about them. I only told her very bare facts, yes I had found them, occasionally I saw them - distance prevented a great deal of actual contact - that was about all. I was not deceitful in any way. I did not pretend I was going somewhere else when I did see bm. My mothers never met, although I could easily have arranged it, and in fact my birth mother did meet my mother-in-law, and they got on very well. I think I was, if you like, two people, and in a way those two people did not meet. Perhaps I could not handle being both daughters at the same time - does this make sense to anyone? Birth mum knew all my children, and my husband. The children knew who she was and had their own version of Grandma for her, to distinguish her from adoptive gran, and my mother-in-law. The children too, did not mix the two mothers together. I am perhaps making my family sound weird, but they are not, it just seemed a natural and sensitive way of dealing with things. Eileen

, i just know he would be heart broken if he knew i had them, he would feel like him and mum had let me down in some way and that he hadn't fulfilled his role as 'my dad'. So although i have the information i wanted, its been put to sleep for now. I think i would also feel disloyal to him in some way. Is this a normal feeling ? Added by Helen Hughes on 25/07/2006 10:24:30 To Beve B I have just started tracing my birth family after agonising over the decision for years. What you describe certainly seems perfectly normal to me! I have felt torn between my need to know and the knowledge that searching would hurt my mum and dad - leading to guilt. I also always questionned whether I had a right to open up old wounds for my birth mother, did I have the right to disrupt her life? Add into that the anxiety - what if she doesnt want contact? What if she does want lots and lots of contact and she's dreadful? What if she's dead, what if I can never find her, what if I find her and she hates me....etc, etc, and that just about sums up how I feel. Take your time - if the timing doesnt feel right for you then dont do anything now. Its hard enough on your emotions any way. You can do what you feel is right for you when it feels right for you. Hope that helped! Take care, Helenxx Added by Beve B on 25/07/2006 10:30:12 Thanks for that Helen. It sure is a mix of emotions and i think when the time is right i'll know it. Beve xxx Added by Margaret Rider on 25/07/2006 12:15:47 Hello everyone I think a lot of us at some time must have thought that we are being disloyal for wanting to know about our birth family. In 'some' of us there is this need that arises during our lives to have knowledge about where we have come from. Some of us have been very lucky in having wonderful lives with our adopted parents but some sadly not. I think it would have been lovely if my own adopted parents had given me a small file when I was a young adult giving me a few details about my birth mother and possibly father. Some photos of herself, medical history and a few details about her family. If I had been given these would I then have gone searching for her or would it have been enough? I do hate the way that some of us feel guilty about searching. I think it's a natural reaction but I know I have been 'made' to feel guilty over the search that I did by my adoptive mother even though later on she told me to search as she was getting very old and wanted me to have contact with them. I was a foster mother for many years in my earlier life and we were thinking about adopting two children. I am sure that I would not have been upset if they had later wanted to know about their birth parents - I would have thought this was quite natural. If you bring childen up in a loving family home I can't see that they are then going to 'leave' you for the 'birth parents'. Margaret

Added by Jess bow bag Bobbin Dog on 23/07/2006 14:37:31 Welcome Gillian, that was exactly how i felt when i joined this site, and knew there must be a way to get us all feeling less a sense of 'unique', in our thoughts and feelings. Its funny you should say that there is no-one in your social circle that is adopted - maybe we all should have it tatoo'ed across our forehead ( i dont mean that really , of course) so there was an outside 'sign' , although if we did, we probabaly wouldnt want it! I knew someone for years and years before I realised they were adopted too - it had just never come up in conversation. Jess x Added by Eileen Bowman on 23/07/2006 20:56:32 Sorry 'I just needed ....' I was not angry or upset with you, or your story, just the way illegitimacy is often treated as a subject. Such terms as 'no better than she should be ' whatever that may mean, and the veiled impression given that if the parent went wrong then automatically the child will too. It is the pre-judging that is wrong. You obviously, for a while, felt that in some way you were a worse person, and that is not how people should be made to feel. Society, media, whatever, is very keen to label folks. Hopefully the feeling has gone away now, but we adoptees are easily wobbled where our confidence is concerned. (((hugs))) Eileen Added by Eileen Bowman on 23/07/2006 23:31:00 Gillian, if you have quite a few hours to spare you can find just about all the different takes on the adoption puzzle on these threads. Everyone has their own time and 'nudge' that starts them searching. For some it will be something they have always intended to do right from when they first found out they were adopted. For many, especially the women, it will be expecting or having their first child, others as with you, the loss of the loved (and sometimes sadly not so loved) adopted parent. It does not really matter why, the 'why' is just what tells you that you are ready to search. Whether you are ready to 'know' is another matter entirely. Read as much as you can of the threads on here, they will help you to see many different results, and many different feelings that these results can bring to people. Good luck, and keep coming back to these threads and messages for help and support, and don't be too sure that you don't know anyone else who is adopted. Not everyone 'tells', one of my closest friends at school never mentioned it to me, or anyone else in our class. I had never made any secret of it myself, so she had plenty of opportunity. I saw her name in the register in London, years after we had left school and lost contact. We are now in touch again after a '40 years on' class reunion, and have spoken about it, she had no wish to search, and still doesn't. I have found a large number of half-siblings, but not my full sister yet. Everyone is different. Eileen Added by Dorothy Lavallee on 24/07/2006 23:13:31 hello from canada well my niece from scotland and her school friend are coming on wed for an overnight visit I will take them back to toronto late thursday as her friend flies back on friday and courtney flies back on sunday. as my son was over at my new place to-day measuring for blinds I asked him if he wanted to meet her, the reponse was not great he felt that he would be to busy and really this new family was not really a part of his life, if I wanted them to be part of mine that was allright be he did'nt have the need to include them in his life, as Ihave mentioned before he was very close to his grandparents, of course I got weepy and he does not cope well with that, he talked a little more then just to say he did not understand how they had never told me, and after all I had nursed both of them at home till they died. anyway for 40yrs of his life my parents were Kit and Bert and he says my birth mother is dead and has never played a part in my life so really why do I need to be intouch with the brother and family. never an easy answer to how one deals with this news I guess my family son and sister wish that I had never found out about my adoption at such an advanced age ah well I shall enjoy courtneys visit she is a charming young lady and to-morrow is another day bye for now dorothy Added by Helen Hughes on 24/07/2006 23:24:48 Dorothy I hope the visit goes well and that you enjoy every single minute of it! If your son doesnt feel the need to meet this new family then I dont suppose you can make him - but that doesnt mean that you shouldnt want or need to should it? Have a great time! Helenxxx Added by Beve B on 25/07/2006 10:17:54 Hi Everyone, Haven't been on for a while so have been reading through alot of your messages. As some of you may remember i starting the process of applying for my adoption records following the death of my wonderful adopted mum. Having now recieved them they are safetly filed away - the reason mainly is because of my adopted dad, i just know he would be heart broken if he knew i had them, he would feel like him and mum had let me down in some way and that he hadn't fulfilled his role as 'my dad'. So although i have the information i wanted, its been put to sleep for now. I think i would also feel disloyal to him in some way. Is this a normal feeling ?

Added by Eileen Bowman on 22/07/2006 23:05:32 Of course you are a good person 'I just needed ....' What the others say is right. You are what you make yourself. Everyone knows right from wrong, whatever bm did does not make you bad. Even if she had brought you up you would still not have been 'bad'. The term 'illegitimate child' makes me so angry. It is not the child that is illegitimate, it is simply that the parents' union is not sanctioned by law or by the church. It is not, so far as I know, against the law to have a child out of wedlock. I hope not or there are going to be a great many lady criminals, including one of my lovely and much loved daughters. No-one has the right to say whether your bm was good or bad, Only she knows. If her story was a little bit shy of the truth maybe it is because she wanted you to think well of her, which proves that she regretted her early wrong doing. If what she said was the truth, then she deserves sympathy. Eileen Added by Just Needed To Get It Out on 23/07/2006 00:55:19 Hi Eileen, You are right no matter what the story was I sympathise with what she has been through. I only meant the term bad person as my BF was obviously keen on roughing people up and taking what did not belong to him that is all. I don't have time for rapists. And sorry if I did not put the stigma into the right context as I also have a niece and nephew born out of wedlock and it makes no difference, and never would. I meant the stigma of being a child from a rape nothing more. Sorry to upset you Eileen Added by Gillian White on 23/07/2006 03:32:40 As a recent member on this site I stumbled across this thread and have been mumbling OMG repeatedly whilst reading it !! To find people that share emotions and thoughts on a subject that I dont know anyone in my social circle to share is very welcoming. I recently lost my adoptive mother and have been thrown into the idea of looking at the possibility of tracing my birth roots ....anyone dealt with this before? Added by Bacardi Slice No Ice on 23/07/2006 10:57:00 hi gillian welcome to the thread its wasnt till after my adopted parents passed away,that i thought id try find my birth family,it didnt seem right while they were alive,as they had done so much for me and i know they would of been hurt.i think it is a natural feeling we have to know were we came from but please go in with an open mind and dont expect to much as it doesnt always have a happy ending good luck bacardi xxxxxxxx Added by Glen in Tinsel Knickers on 23/07/2006 11:17:50 Hi Gillian I can't really add any more to what Bacardi says above. If it's something you WANT to do,and it's something that you feel comfortable with,(knowing that it might not be pleasant or have a fairy tale ending),then i would say make a few enquiries. It doesn't have to mean that you follow things through,throughout the thread you will often see that we describe our search as a journey,full of bumps and turns. Well don't forget that you can always stop somewhere on the way,journeys end can be wherever you want it to be. Glen Added by Margaret Rider on 23/07/2006 14:28:06 Hello Gillian Sorry to hear that you have recently lost your adoptive mother and you now feel that the time is right to try and trace your birth family. As Bacardi has already mentioned go with an open mind and don't expect too much. Best wishes Margaret

YOU SWEETHEARSTS THANK YOU SO MUCH xxxx

Added by Glen in Tinsel Knickers on 21/07/2006 14:34:25 The last few posts must have been the most difficult to put down in words for a long long time. It's only fellow adoptees who can begin to appreciate how we feel when we hear our stories,we may not fully understand how someone can overcome such a trauma,but i realise how lucky i was to find that my b/m had died. To never have to face the possibilty of rejection or hear things recounted made things easier for me. My half sister was very wary of me initially,scared that i would judge our mother (she always reminds me that it is OUR mother we speak of). Her account of things at the time is broadly the same as what is in my adoption file,she will never know how much it means when i answer the phone and she says 'Hi Glen,it's your sister'. She could say that every day for the next 100 years and it would still sound magical to me. We both agree that we turned out as well rounded adults despite our different upbringing,whether we will ever meet i don't know,but we are both happy with what we have at the moment. Glen Added by Margaret Rider on 21/07/2006 17:23:09 Hello J Oh Good hearing from you. My only full blood sister who was adopted within a week of myself I found out a few weeks ago had died when she was 49 so I won't have that reunion but I am thrilled to bits have contact with one of her sons at the moment and learning more about my sister everytime we write. Haven't plucked up courage to phone yet. I found my father's daughter (my half sister) about 2 years ago, sometimes its going well and then everything seems to stop. I still don't know whether we will ever meet as whenever I mention it there is always a problem! I don't think you have done anything wrong. Sometimes things go very well and easy and then suddenly without any warning things start to cool off. Of course you want to know whether he is still coming to see you shortly but perhaps he is getting cold feet. Do you think that you should leave contact between you say just every couple of weeks or so instead and ask him if the oncoming visit is worrying him and that he wants more time. Perhaps he feels under pressure from you somehow. I had over 20yrs contact with my half brothers and sister and they rejected me once birth mother had died. That rejection shattered me and my family as I thought we were so close and so happy - how wrong I was. I just hope this won't happen again to me. Added by Margaret Rider on 21/07/2006 22:34:16 No J Oh - Don't give up but take it a little slower. What do other members think? Margaret Added by Bacardi Slice No Ice on 22/07/2006 20:21:18 hi every one some very brave people telling there stories on this thread,i admire all of you i oftern wonder what is going to happen when my birth parents pass away,as i have no desire to meet them,but do have contact with other members of my birth family.has this happend to any one else i find it very sad that we let these people into our lives and it seems that when the novelty wears off they just cant be botherd anymore.i also wonder if it would of been diffrent if they had found me,i will never know hugs bacardi xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Added by I Just needed to Get It Out. on 21/07/2006 02:50:02 I think this site as my social worker but with more views than just one, and I still can not find one who can really understand what I have been though over the last 6 months or more. I feel that I do sometimes want to talk about this as I have bottled up so many feelings about being adopted over the years and a now feeling better for being able to discuss them instead of hiding them all and bottling them up. Where do I start, yes I have always known I was adopted, I can’t really remember when I haven’t known. My adopted parent are the best that anyone could wish for, there are always there to love and support me not matter what I do. Last year I started the search for my BM, and with help from others found her very easily, she was really happy to get an email from me, I think. A couple of emails went between us and I did ask about my birth father, at first she ignored my questions but I did not give up I wanted to know. Eventually she did tell me the story of how she was picked up in a car by 3 males, friends of her boyfriends, they drove around the corner and beat her up and was raped by them and left on the side of the road, and she was found and taken home. She did go to the doctors about 5 months later and the doctor told her she was pregnant. So she told me it was to late by then to have anything done. So she was shipped off to an unmarried mothers home where she had me and no she never took me home I adopted at 6 weeks. After getting in contact with another birth relative I was told a similar story, but not the same. The birth relative told me that BM had a habit of getting drunk and flashing herself (at 15, 16 years old) at the local. One night she was quite drunk (and stripping off) and 3 boys asked her to go for a drive she said yes. BM went with them in the car and came back a little while later crying and bruised. She said that they did force her and was raped. Followed by the same scenario with the doctor’s visit and my birth. You cannot imagine how I felt when I found out, I was gutted to say the least and cried for days on end. I know that both stories have the same base of the story so I will never know my BF and don’t really think I want to either. But I still have so many questions, but BM has closed the book on that and me I believe. I can understand that in a way maybe I would be the same. But I was a good person before I knew about my parentage. I believe all of the good in me has come from my adopted family and for that I am thankful. I can only but imagine what issues I would have grown up with had I been kept and the stigma that would have gone with it. My life with my adopted parents has been good and I smile at the thought of my Mum and Dad choosing me as they always said they did. Not only by them but by my husband, my soul mate as well. I have my ups and downs but we all do. Sorry this is so long I just had to get it all out. I feel much better now. Added by Margaret Rider on 21/07/2006 13:16:19 Welcome back Dorothy and glad your move went well. Eileen I think your message was great and was put very well indeed. The message from 'I Just needed to Get It out' is something that a lot of adoptees when searching for their blood relatives will have to deal with or something very similar. It's difficult how to imagine anyone dealing with this type of story and then getting back to their usual life. Perhaps when we search we just don't think of details like that. Quite a lot of reunions have come to and end when asked about their birth father. If you have had a bad experience in the past you try and forget about it! Added by Helen Hughes on 21/07/2006 14:20:34 Hi everyone, I have just read the message from I Just Needed to Get It Out. Some adoptees will share your experiences, others wont - and some wont know whether they do or dont! I can only begin to imagine what a shock that discovery must have been for you and how difficult it must have been for you to try and get your head around it. You say that you were a good person before you found this out - as a result of your adopted family. Firstly - then you must STILL be a good person now! Secondly - you are not responsible for the actions of other people - expecially before you were born. You cannot be responsible for the circumstances that led to your birth. If you are a good person it is because you make the right choices, you treat other people well. You cannot put all the credit for this on your adopted family - you deserve credit for it too. I am truly sorry that this is so difficult for you. You should take satisfaction in knowing that regardless of the circumstances of your birth you are a good person - and this is proven by the fact that other good people love you - your adopted family and your soul mate. Take care. Helenxxx Added by Glen in Tinsel Knickers on 21/07/2006 14:34:25 The last few posts must have been the most difficult to put down in words for a long long time. It's only fellow adoptees who can begin to appreciate how we feel when we hear our stories,we may not fully understand how someone can overcome such a trauma,but i realise how lucky i was to find that my b/m had died. To never have to face the possibilty of rejection or hear things recounted made things easier for me. My half sister was very wary of me initially,scared that i would judge our mother (she always reminds me that it is OUR mother we speak of). Her account of things at the time is broadly the same as what is in my adoption file,she will never know how much it means when i answer the phone and she says 'Hi Glen,it's your sister'. She could say that every day for the next 100 years and it would still sound magical to me. We both agree that we turned out as well rounded adults despite our different upbringing,whether we will ever meet i don't know,but we are both happy with what we have at the moment. Glen

Added by Bacardi Slice No Ice on 20/07/2006 16:40:17 hi donna your story hit a nerve with me,i dont give to much detail on here but my birth parents never wanted us from the start,so i dont there is a relationship to rekindle as it was a no go from the start bacardi xxx Added by Glen in Tinsel Knickers on 20/07/2006 16:52:21 It's good to see the thread so busy,and good to see that everyone feels the things that i have. I know that sounds silly,but sometimes i feel like i'm the only one who ever felt 'who am i'.the reality check from the thread works wonders at times. I'm still digesting my file at the moment,but i'm happy that it tells me that my b/m wasn't a cruel heartless woman. Glen xx Added by Donna King on 20/07/2006 18:06:30 Hello I should point my adopted mother's version of my birth mother was untrue, so a double whammy of hurt. Donna Added by Dorothy Lavallee on 20/07/2006 20:55:52 hello everyone my goodness the site has been busy while I have been away moving from one home to another, I have just had my computor hooked up again and immediatly went to this site it has made for some interesting reading some tears over some of the shared thoughts and feelings, I am going to have to re read them over again and get my head around some of them. the move went well though the temperature was in the 40's here in this part of canada, but i see that england has been blessed with a heat wave as well. I have unpacked 18 boxes of books and got the book-cases in order now for the kitchen , you can see what is important in my life. my new niece from scotland has arrived and I am looking foreward to seeing this blood relative again. I did so enjoy meeting her last year. I have wondered as well if I had not been adopted what would I have been like, but as I did not find out till age 62 it is hard to think of being different than what I am. I am like my father and have many mannerisims of my maternal grandmother, I guess one does grow to look like who one lives with. my half brother has said that I look like my birth mother, aftet two years of writing and phoneing no one has found a photo of her so I will have to take his word, enough for now I am rambling see what a week off this site does to one bye for now dorothy Added by Eileen Bowman on 20/07/2006 21:45:21 Thanks Margaret, I know you have searched your certs. for me before. I think one of the things that keeps us searching is the need for acceptance in something - family, blood link - that is ours, as it were 'by right' - People say 'God gives you your family , thank God you can choose your friends' The fact is that 'God', by whatever name you choose to call him/her, has not given you what the majority of other people have - a blood relation. For many of us the first blood relation we see is our own child if we are lucky enough to have one. Whether it is a natural instinct to feel a need for a 'real' relative, or whether it is something that is conditioned into us by tradition, etc, it is always there. A blood relation cannot stop being a blood relation. A friend can stop being a friend, a husband or wife can stop being a husband or wife, but a blood relation cannot change that relationship. They may not see you for fifty years, or ever see you, but you are connected, whether you or they like it or not. I am probably not putting this very well, but I think it is the unchangeability of the connection that seems to be at the heart of our searches. So whether we search or not, you cannot un know that there is someone somewhere who has the closest of all blood links to us, and we want to know, for good or ill. Eileen

Added by Jess bow bag Bobbin Dog on 19/07/2006 20:12:57 Dizzy , sorry , just one of those moments when I stop and question , when I dont like myslf very much, could i have been different. Would I have been ? could I have been? did mum and dad really shape me into what I am or would I have been 'me' anyway? learning to love what you are, despite what you could, should or ought to be is sometimes hard. jess Added by Eileen Bowman on 19/07/2006 20:29:26 Jess - there are so many dividing paths in our lives, and the choices we make as to which one we follow are infinite. There is a rather pretty song called 'Two Roads', if only there were only two. How can we tell how we would have been if we had gone left instead of right, chosen one friend, partner, job, frock, anything -different to the one we did choose. Been 'given' to different parents than the ones who adopted us. If you go far enough down the analogy - suppose the 'tadpole' that fertilized the egg that became one of us had been the one next to it, not that one!!!!!!!! These are the sort of thoughts that send us the way madness lies. Guess I am affected by the heat too -----lol Eileen Added by Donna King on 19/07/2006 22:08:03 Hi We all have those what would things have been like if we had not been adopted days. Been there myself a few times this year. My husband usually says to me if you had not been adopted you would not have met, not married me and had our 4 lovely children. It never fails to pick me up. Donna Added by Bacardi Slice No Ice on 19/07/2006 23:17:31 hi all i use to have feelings of not liking myself very much especially when i was younger,it wasnt till much later in life that i gained a lot of confidence,i have lovely friends and a lovely husband and 2 children,but i must say my confidence has been shattered slightly since meeting some of my birth family,that feeling of not been accepted comes to mind.but im learning to pick myself up again bacardi x Added by Margaret Rider on 20/07/2006 11:45:39 Eileen - what a wonderful photo to see with you all together. It's certainly a shock to the system when you view a photo like that. Oh how I wish I had some certificates here that matched your sister - I have so many for the years 1945/46 when I was searching for my own sister. I will still keep searching though for you. It's been a very good week with such lovely letters from members of this site. How good it is to read how others have coped over the years, it's something that I haven't really seen written down on a site before. Sorry to hear Bacardi that you felt your confidence had been shattered since meeting your birth family. The feeling of not being accepted can come to mind once again. Although I had over 20yrs contact with my birth mother and her family I can honestly say in all that time I often wondered to myself 'why am I here - what am I doing'. This is my birth mother, she gave me away with my sister, I've come back -why? What do I want from her. Many happy years we did have together but I still felt like a stranger. We gave each other a kiss when we met and when we left each other, what was I seeking? Was it her love again after rejection? I suppose I wanted the whole picture, about my birth, home life, who my father was, did I look like them, medical history (I certainly needed that) and why I was given away! Am I any happier today? To be honest I am not quite sure. I feel in a way I have betrayed my birth mother now in her 99th year but she said it was OK to search but didn't want to know any details but then I found out she had written to my birth mother when I went to school, when I went to College, when I was 18, when I got married etc. etc and she has never told me about this either. She told me my birth mother was a common prostitute.............why.............was it so I would think she was so awful I wouldn't go and search for her............no the opposite.............I just had to find out what she really was like. Margaret Added by Donna King on 20/07/2006 13:12:02 Hi How sad Margaret your adopted mum said that about your birth mum. It hit a raw nerve with myself as my adopted mum would forever tell me my birth mother hated children and did not want me, but they (adopted parents) had chosen me and loved me. Whilst I guess they did not want me to know her, but at the same time wanted to reassure myself I was loved it has devasting affects on a child. The pain it inflicts is hard to put in words. I used to think I must have been a dreadful baby. Plus the words of a social worker on my scant details I was allowed described me as sweet but smelly baby. Charming I must say. On a good day I can laugh at that statement! Donna

Added by Donna King on 19/07/2006 17:38:31 Thank you Jess, I had to laugh at myself for not guessing that might be the case. Love the words to the song. Donna Added by Glen in Tinsel Knickers on 19/07/2006 17:58:40 I find it hard most of the time,and this is the only thread where i don't hide behind humour,(except my nickname). It takes a good while for me to be my true self with people,and then it's not that often,assuming i know what my true self is! Glen Added by Eileen Bowman on 19/07/2006 20:07:54 Margaret - I'll go with you with the feelings at seeing a photo from the 'time before time'. This happened to me last year when my Canadian half-bro sent me a picture that he had always known from a small child himself. It was of my birth mother and birth father (half-bro's father) taken at a wedding during the war. There was my mother, instantly recognizable as I had met her some years ago. She was holding me as a baby of about 4-6 months, and standing behind her was my birth father. Just one shot of the two of them and me, as a family. There may have been other pics. mother had lost all her possessions during and after the war in many moves. This one picture had gone to Canada with my birth father's friend, whose wedding it was. It hung on the friends's wall and birth father's subsequent children were told 'that is your English sister, try to find her'. It is the only picture I have of me under two when I was put out for adoption - not the wish of my birth parents. As you will all have seen from my many postings, I have a full sister sixteen months younger than myself, she went to different parents. Still hoping to find birth name Jennifer Ann, born 22nd September 1945 in Woking Maternity Hospital, our mother lived in Bisley and her names were Muriel Ethel M......t - maiden name H e. Her husband was not our father. Strength and persistence to all searchers Eileen

Added by Rebecca Carter on 18/07/2006 22:31:46 Only 3 more sleeps before I go and visit my older birth half brother in Germany - Yipee! Bicardi Ive sent you a PM but do what makes you happiest and what you are comfortable. Love and hugs to everyone Rebecca x Added by Donna King on 18/07/2006 22:33:35 Hi Yes Margaret I was allowed photo copies only of details of my birth ie, weight etc, nothing else. This sadly is not enough when you are racking your brains to remember other vital information. My social worker was kind enough to ring with the adoption agency who had held the records to check what she could photo copy. As for people wanting or not wanting to trace birth parents, I always say only do it if you feel it is right for you. Life changes us all at some points we may feel it is right at others not, it took me until after the birth of my second child to realise I needed more information about myself. At first all I wanted to know was my birth name and where I was born. Then I was curious for my files at this point my social worker produced a letter from my BM that was written on my 18th birthday and lodged in my files. The contents which I will not reveal, prompted my journey to meet my BM and I am glad I did. So many twists and turns in our lifes! Donna Added by Bacardi Slice No Ice on 18/07/2006 23:15:18 thank you to every one who has given me advice and good luck rebecca on meeting your brother,please let us know how it goes bacardi xx Added by Margaret Rider on 19/07/2006 13:10:15 All the best Rebecca for your visit to see your half brother in Germany - love to hear how it went on your return. It was a shame Donna that you were only given such a few details but perhaps your queries were answered by your BM when you met. Yes we certainly have many twists and turns in our life. Good to hear that the puzzle has bee completed for Myra and hope it goes well. Hope everyone is surviving the heat! Margaret Added by Donna King on 19/07/2006 16:34:44 Hello Unfortunately not all questions have been answered but such is life. Good luck in meeting your half brother Rebecca. Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong, as in on all my messages I have update and delete on them? Added by Jess bow bag Bobbin Dog on 19/07/2006 16:42:08 we all have that Donna , but only on our own! ( i cant see them on yours, only on mine) Added by Jess bow bag Bobbin Dog on 19/07/2006 17:29:16 excuse me a mo- i'm in a tangle with thoughts and feeling. can i share the words of a song in my head with you all? Greatest Love Of All Michael Masser/Linda Creed I believe the children are our are future Teach them well and let them lead the way Show them all the beauty they possess inside Give them a sense of pride to make it easier Let the children's laughter remind us how we used to be Everybody searching for a hero People need someone to look up to I never found anyone to fulfill my needs A lonely place to be So I learned to depend on me Chorus: I decided long ago, never to walk in anyone's shadows If I fail, if I succeed At least I live as I believe No matter what they take from me They can't take away my dignity Because the greatest love of all Is happening to me I found the greatest love of all Inside of me The greatest love of all Is easy to achieve Learning to love yourself It is the greatest love of all I believe the children are our future Teach them well and let them lead the way Show them all the beauty they possess inside Give them a sense of pride to make it easier Let the children's laughter remind us how we used to be Chorus And if by chance, that special place That you've been dreaming of Leads you to a lonely place Find your strength in love

Added by Helen Hughes on 18/07/2006 17:20:14 Oh I am so glad that its not just me! Added by Jess bow bag Bobbin Dog on 18/07/2006 18:10:19 Helen, of course it not just you! My meeting with my birth mother has a tale that goes with it. S/w arranged the meet for me, B/m said ok, but in a public place - not keen on that myself , but went along with it. Arrange to meet under the clock tower in Luton ( why? she didnt even live in Luton, nor did I!) at 11am. being me, and somewhat anxious ( !) Off i set to drive down the M1 nice and early, in case of traffic etc. No idea how i was going to recognise her or anything - just hoped she'd be obvious under the clock i suppose. Not keen on motorway driving and feeling sick as a pig ( what was I about to let myself in for- not a month before this woman had denied having me!) So, finds somewhere to park, and put a small fortune in the meter , now realising that leaving home at 8.30 was a little extreme, as it was still only 9.25! Goes for a wander about, cup of coffee etc etc, and at 10.30 find a bench on the square, stop, sit and people watch. maybe i'll spot her coming... 10.45 comes round, getting bored now, want to get on with it. continue sitting. 10.55- still no sign of anyone standing around waiting for anyone 11.00- Clock tower stikes the hour, still no-one 11.10, still sitting there, no-one has materialised ..yet 11.30, spots a phone box and rings social worker, absolute floods of tears, ''she didnt show'' At this point social worker informs me she'd had a telephone call from B/M to say she was ill and wouldnt be able to make it, and had tried to phone me, ( way before the days of moblies), Finds car , drives home , does it all agian another day ( that is another story though!) Jess x Added by Margaret Rider on 18/07/2006 18:42:29 I wish Helen all the best in her search and hope it goes well for her. Regarding Donna's message weren't you allowed to have photo copies of your file? In one way I was lucky as being disabled the social worker came to my house with my file and left it with me for a short while so I was able to copy everything and also keep all the handwritten papers from my birth mother. She thought it best that I read the file when she had gone. I have read and read again so many times my own file and still I see something different or a different view on something that had been written down. Although the social worker knew I had been in contact with my birth mother for over 20yrs she didn't realise I had no idea who my father was other than being in the army.(In all those years of contact my birth mother she would not discuss my father). The great shock I had and I wasn't prepared for that was seeing his name, address and details at the end of my file. Also there was this small photo which had been cut in half of myself aged about 3months old............the first photo I had seen of myself before the age of 1yr old after I had been adopted. To find that after 59yrs was wonderful and something I will always treasure. Margaret Added by Bacardi Slice No Ice on 18/07/2006 20:53:14 some wonderfull stories on here lately i wish every one well in there search i have meet some of my birth family but not my actual birth parents and wondering does it put more of a closure on peoples needs when they have met there birth parents.i feel as i have all the info i need to know about my adoption and the reasons from my birth family and my file.all i realy need to know from my birth parents is why and only they can answer that question.i have big resevations about meeting them and all my life iv not had the desire to meet them. bacardi xx Added by Glen in Tinsel Knickers on 18/07/2006 22:04:28 Hi Bacardi That is something only you can answer,just ask yourself is the need to know greater than the need not to? When we make a start on this trip i think we all dream of meeting birth parents,but it doesn't mean that we have to. There is always the option to hold back,or let things stay as they are. Take a deep breath,have a good think,then deep breath again. It doesn't have to happen now,or even next week,if it is the right thing to do it will happen. Glen

Added by Donna King on 18/07/2006 14:07:47 Hi I have been following this thread for ages and at last have plucked up the courage to reply. I too wish I seen this thread before going on my own journey, it is a huge relief to see other people who go through the same experiences as yourself. For me the journey was happy with some upsets on the way. The end has at last banished the empty feeling, which as a child I described as feeling as if I had landed from Mars with no idendity, nobody looking like me, an alien name, and no past only future. Added by Jess bow bag Bobbin Dog on 18/07/2006 14:51:09 Welcome Donna - This is one of the few threads on GR where we can all think different things, talk about them, bat them to and fro and not fall out about it! Everyones journey - (because that is what i think of it as) is different . what worked for me, maybe completely wrong for you or vice versa. having made my journey - which was a total push out into the unknown, its no good anyone trying to draw you a map either - there is no map, because there is no right or wrong way. Everyone does the journey at their own speed and in their own time. ( Social workers imput being slowest of them all!) Have i finished my journey ?- no idea, i have done what i want to for now - have 3 half siblings not an hour away. I know where they are and they know where i am. Not met them, or have any burning desire to do so.However if one of them rang me tommorow, i'd be there like a shot i guess !! Please, feel free to throw things into the pot, we can all stir it around and see what comes out of it for us, the more views the better jess x Added by Helen Hughes on 18/07/2006 16:33:41 Hi, again, A close relative, also adopted, has no desire to trace at all - and cannot understand why I would want to, we share the same background but are totally different - look at the world differently and want totallly different things. Each to their own - obviously. I am not always entirely sure why I want to trace my birth family, I just know that I do. Its part of who I am. I know if I do not follow this through it will nag away at me - like before I started my own family, I didnt choose to want children - I just did. So here I am, blundering through, making it up as I go along (although, to be fair, with some superb support, guidance and help from someone who contacted me when I first came on this site) and just hoping it doesnt all explode in my face - although I am aware that it might. I suppose it's just a gap in me that needs filing - one way or another. It would be soooooo much easier if we all came with an instruction manual wouldnt it? Helen x x Added by Helen Hughes on 18/07/2006 16:35:26 Oh yes - and well done Donna, good for you! I am glad your end result was a positive one. Added by Donna King on 18/07/2006 16:57:33 Hello Again Good luck in your journey Helen. Have to say even though I said end, guess it is still an ongoing journey has relationships have to be worked at. Am in verbal contact with BF have yet to pluck the courage up to meet him! My one regret is that I wish we could keep more of our records once they have been located. I had a great social worker assigned to help (she was very caring), when I read my notes some aspects were upsetting and I was not able to take in everything at once. One good aspect was to find my christian name was the one I was given at birth. Although I wish my adoptive parents had been able to tell me that. Donna Added by Helen Hughes on 18/07/2006 17:04:37 Thank you. I cant find any trace of BF, now have a lot of background information about BM and family - but very much at the start of the process. I know what you mean about plucking up the courage though - the first e-mail I received from this site was an offer of help - and that had me in a total panic - what should I say, what should I do . . so heaven help me when it comes to direct contact (if indeed ever). Still, like everything, will cope with that when/if arises. Courage definitely seems to be a common attribute shared amongst everyone on this thread! Added by Glen in Tinsel Knickers on 18/07/2006 17:16:33 I bet there is one thing that nearly all of us have done when the question of contact comes up, Had a really good think about what we want to say,type it out,delete it,retype it (and probably do that several times) then hit send,and then wonder what we have done! If i could change one thing it would have been to wait for a day before i answered that first reply i received. Not that things went badly,far from it,but with hindsight i would have been better to have a long think before i sent a reply. The GR homepage is very misleading when you see the success story 'within four hours...........'. It makes it look like every birth family is just waiting for you to send a message,not quite the truth as we all know. Glen Added by Helen Hughes on 18/07/2006 17:20:14 Oh I am so glad that its not just me!

Added by &#1645;&#1645;Mel in Oz &#1645;&#1645; on 18/07/2006 12:18:10 Hi All, I am glued to this thread at the moment for the stories that I am reading, and have so many different emotions with reading them. I too have never had the opportunity to discuss my adoption or the feelings that go with it either, but now that I have I feel so much better to not feel so isolated with my thoughts and feelings. I am a normal adoptee ( or as normal as we can be) lol Why do we search ? I have no idea but I did it. I now feel better and more at peace for it, even though some parts of it where devastating. If I could have my time over I would do it again. For me it is better to know than not to know at all. ( Hope that makes sense) Cya Melisa Added by Glen in Tinsel Knickers on 18/07/2006 12:45:08 Hi all It isn't till you start to read these threads that you stop and think.While we all seek some answers the questions we ask and why we ask them are all for our own personal reasons,but one thing does shine through,although we all feel that we are unique we do have a common thing between us. How many adoptees have wished that they could have seen these threads BEFORE they started their own journey,more than a handful i'll bet.Things seem black and white until you see these threads. It doesn't matter how supportive your nearest and dearest are,they can never quite understand how we feel,why we feel the way we do,or realise how small things can have the biggest impact. Thanks everyone for sharing our experiences. Glen

How much is that Doggy in the window. My mum always loved her story of my selection. I did as a kid but as I got older I realised how close I was to not being picked. A room full of babies and they made my mum pick me out of them all. They told her she picked the right kid....yeah right. But in remembering all that I must say I would rather be adopted then fostered. Most of us got the real family deal....foster kids dont. I think that its is up to the individual about how our lives turn out. I am not clingy and overneeding for people. But it took me along time for the confidence to come to me. I was always shy. My sister was the opposite to me, confident and she was adopted first. She is also not a clingy person. And we both are not horders of things. Thank you all, its been really interesting. Annxx Added by J e S S on 17/07/2006 08:31:51 Eileen ( and anyone else) I just think i am what i am, much as your adoptive parents shaped what we are to some extent, in the bigger part , I think we are as we would be if we had not been adopted. I'm sensitive , my mum isnt particually( not sayings she 's hard, because she's not) Yes, i went through the ..''if you hadn't adopted me blah blah blah'' when i was a teenager, but I think every kid has that , except they throw back ''if you hadn't had me blah blah'' i think my theory holds out because of they way that my full birth sister and i are so alike, despite totally different upbringings. Put us back together today and we are like 'two peas in a pod' - had we grown up together I am sure this would not have been the case. not sure if we are like our birth mother though - we dont know her well enough to say- what we do know of her, we hope not! Sometimes us adoptees need to dig dep into our thoughts, i think its good to hurl these thoughts into this pot - certainly helps me feel better sometimes! Jess x Added by Bacardi Slice No Ice on 17/07/2006 14:56:21 bumped to help a fellow adoptee bacardi x Added by Helen Hughes on 17/07/2006 19:30:40 Not sharing experiences or feelings 100% does not make them wrong. If I feel one way and say so, that is not meant in anyway to devalue the different thoughts, feelings and experiences of another person - and I apologise wholeheartedly if you thought I was doing so by not entirely agreeing with the thoughts of another. I have never had the opportunity to discuss my adoption with other adoptees before. I am finding the experience extremely valuable and moving. As adoptees we inevitably share many things, but we are also all individuals and will feel and view these things in unique ways. I am very close to my adopted family - but cannot assume that all adoptees will be. Some will not have the happy experiences I have had. Some people have already managed to trace their birth families, some have established relationships with them, I have not yet been able to trace my birth mother - my experiences differ - but are neither more or less important or right. I came on to this strand because it seemed to be a place where people could talk to each other honestly - and I felt that I would gain from this. I am at the beginning of my search for my natural mother. I have no idea if this is going to end well or desperately badly - or indeed with no definite resolution at all. I feel excited, frustrated and oh so very, very frightened right now. It does help to have all of your discussions to draw on. An online support network peopled by people I dont know and have never met but I feel certain will understand how I feel, even if they feel different things. Thank you all, Helen. Added by Margaret Rider on 18/07/2006 10:53:37 Hi everyone - It is quite important the message Jennifer wrote - that we should exchange views and learn from each other and not to disagree as every case is so very different. My heart does go out to those that are still searching for their birth families. It is certainly a ride that can bring such joy but also a great deal of sadness. I was originally taken out of the family home and sent to a baby 'hostel' in Gloucestershire, taken for adoption and then returned to birth mother as they had changed their minds! I stayed with her until the day after I had my first birthday and then adopted to the parents who brought me up and gave me a wonderful live but I had to be a high achiever in everything I did and the pressure on me was very high...................does this ring a bell with other adoptees? I was loved a great deal but I still needed to search! Yes some people have wonderful lives when they are adopted and some very very sad ones like a friend of mine. Some people have no wish in the least to try and find their birth families and are very happy and contented and would hate the thought that someone was 'looking for them'. So why do we search? Margaret Added by &#1645;&#1645;Mel in Oz &#1645;&#1645; on 18/07/2006 12:18:10 Hi All, I am glued to this thread at the moment for the stories that I am reading, and have so many different emotions with reading them. I too have never had the opportunity to discuss my adoption or the feelings that go with it either, but now that I have I feel so much better to not feel so isolated with my thoughts and feelings. I am a normal adoptee ( or as normal as we can be) lol Why do we search ? I have no idea but I did it. I now feel better and more at peace for it, even though some parts of it where devastating. If I could have my time over I would do it again. For me it is better to know than not to know at all. ( Hope that makes sense) Cya Melisa Added by Glen in Tinsel Knickers on 18/07/2006 12:45:08 Hi all It isn't till you start to read these threads that you stop and think.While we all seek some answers the questions we ask and why we ask them are all for our own personal reasons,but one thing does shine through,although we all feel that we are unique we do have a common thing between us. How many adoptees have wished that they could have seen these threads BEFORE they started their own journey,more than a handful i'll bet.Things seem black and white until you see these threads. It doesn't matter how supportive your nearest and dearest are,they can never quite understand how we feel,why we feel the way we do,or realise how small things can have the biggest impact. Thanks everyone for sharing our experiences. Glen

I think an adoptive parents worry isnt so much that we'll abandon them in favour of Birth parents - maybe some do- but Mum and Dad said their only worry was that I would get hurt in the process of finding out. Jess Added by Margaret Rider on 16/07/2006 14:26:33 In the 1940's and 50's there was little known about the power of the bond between mother and child. Through their research authorities have determined that when the mother/child entity is split it causes an acute and lasting trauma in both mother and child. Repercussions are ominous and tenacious though they are deeply buried inside and remain throughout both the mother and childs life. A child's first experience with the adoptive family is in everyone elses happiness over his or her tragedy. There is a belief that even love will make it disappear. Some experts even think that this dismissal to be the adoptee's second trauma. Many adoptees have often been told that their mothers loved them so much that they gave them away! What sense does this make? If my mother loved me so much then why did she give me away - therefore there must be something wrong with me which then creates low self-esteem. Low self-esteem leads to pleasing people. Often adoptees are exemplary people-pleasers. For many adoptees it is easy to fall into despair and feel powerless over many circumstances that other people can overcome with relative ease. We can become obsessed with controlling other parts of our lives. Often we can become depressed. No matter how much love and care we are given the truth still is that we are someone elses child. We exhaust ourselves emotionally pretending otherwise because we believe it will ensure our survival and prevent another abandonment. We also place a lot of energy in wondering what our birth mother was like. Trust is a common problem among adoptees. Do we tend to trust anyone and everyone? Abandonment is another issue - does this feeling ever leave us? Despite all the above adoptees smile. We smile to hide a world of hurt that neither we nor the rest of the world want to face. Next time you encounter a happy and grateful adoptee who had wonderful adoptive parents and a wonderful life have a little closer look! The above is not written to hurt anyone but I believe there is a great deal of truth in this for a lot of adoptees. It would be nice to hear your views on this. Margaret Added by J e S S on 16/07/2006 14:33:49 I think I agree quite with a lot of what you say - however not particually for the reasons you say. quote: ''Next time you encounter a happy and grateful adoptee who had wonderful adoptive parents and a wonderful life have a little closer look!'' What do I look for? - I'm looking at me.I'm a reasonably happy adoptee - I f i look at everything that happens to me as deep seated in my adoptive circumstances I think I'd go off my trolley! jess Added by Margaret Rider on 16/07/2006 14:49:31 Yes Jess Perhaps I worded that part wrongly as I was going far too deep into how some adoptees express their emotions and try and hide others. Added by Helen Hughes on 16/07/2006 16:26:44 I also agree with a lot of what you said - but not all. I know that during my teens I did a lot of wallowing - 'even my natural mother didn't want me' etc, however all my none adopted friends were equally full of angst - it just focussed on different things. Not a few of them were convinced they were adopted - and a few even felt that they ought to have been! I am not being flippant, adoption carries hurt, of course it does, but what I mean is that so does life, every one has doubts, concerns, worries, pre-occupations. I know that I have had periods in my life where I have linked all my negative feelings and experiences to being adopted - but I am not just adopted, I am a complete, complicated messy human being and one fact, however important does not completely define me, nor did it completely create me. Added by Eileen Bowman on 16/07/2006 23:38:43 Helen, Jess, and Margaret You have put so well what many of us feel - it is very difficult to make sense of being abandoned, and being 'chosen'. There is the feeling of being responsible for making the adoptive parents 'happy', when one is not actually happy oneself, and the insecurity of needing to 'be good and grateful' in case you get 'sent back' to someone who gave you away. I would add to that the need to cling onto things, people, places. Also a need to control and sort ones things and thoughts into boxes, both real and in ones mind. If things are controlled, they are safe and cannot be lost or disposed of. I was born in 1944, in my class at school there were 28 girls, five of us were adopted. Eileen Added by Ann from Oz on 17/07/2006 00:24:53 Hi all Well everyone has really got deep this week. It got me to remember my mothers story of my adoption. Which always made me think of that song. How much is that Doggy in the window. My mum always loved her story of my selection. I did as a kid but as I got older I realised how close I was to not being picked. A room full of babies and they made my mum pick me out of them all. They told her she picked the right kid....yeah right. But in remembering all that I must say I would rather be adopted then fostered. Most of us got the real family deal....foster kids dont. I think that its is up to the individual about how our lives turn out. I am not clingy and overneeding for people. But it took me along time for the confidence to come to me. I was always shy. My sister was the opposite to me, confident and she was adopted first. She is also not a clingy person. And we both are not horders of things. Thank you all, its been really interesting. Annxx

Added by Bacardi Slice No Ice on 12/07/2006 17:34:34 many thanks for your stories,im not been nosey honest,i just like to see how things were thought of and how diffrent generations relate to adoption i had a strange up bringing but my adopted parents were old enough to be my grandparents which was sometimes difficult but they did love us and i know we wouldnt of had a good upbringing if we had stayed with birth parents hugs bacardi xxxxx Added by Beverly- Michelle on 12/07/2006 19:14:06 Hi all, just been reading this thread in the hope that someone may be the sister that I have been looking for. (Born late '60's) Do you read the other thread started by Jess? And how many people do you think read this website? I have posted endless messages on the other thread in the hope that she may be reading it. Take care, Bev. Added by Bacardi Slice No Ice on 12/07/2006 19:26:04 hi bev you can never add to many messages to any board when looking for your sister i wish you well in your search and keep us updated with your progress we love happy endings bacardi xxxx Added by Ann from Oz on 13/07/2006 01:01:14 Hi all Eileen, Just a thought....Have you tried VANISH in australia.....your sister may have moved to oz. Vanish are on the net. They are very slow didnt help my BS very much....I found more information of our BM from here.......but they maybe able to help you. I know alot of kids were brought over here from the UK in those years. Hope this is a help Hi to mel...my BM also lives in UK so I also cant see a meeting happening unless we win tattslotto. Annxx Added by Eileen Bowman on 13/07/2006 14:28:41 Thanks Ann - had not heard of Vanish, but will certainly try it. (Actually over here we have a stain remover called Vanish - lol ) I had sometimes wondered if my sister might have ended up in Australia as many couples went out there on the assisted passages shortly after the war - I'm off to the site now. Thanks again Eileen Added by Ann from Oz on 14/07/2006 02:57:41 Hi all Eileen...Found the net address for VANISH. www.vicnet.net.au/~vanish. Took me a while to find sorry. Hope this will help you. Annxx Added by Margaret Rider on 15/07/2006 18:46:03 Is there anyone who has already either met or had contact with their birth family members and now regrets doing so? I often wonder about this and how it has affected their lives. I always had this urge especially when I had my own children to know who I looked like. Do you think this is one of the main issues of why we search or do we just want to know why we were put for adoption? Margaret Added by Helen Hughes on 15/07/2006 19:20:40 I was born and adopted in 1968. My parents used to tell me a bedtime story about a baby whose mum couldnt look after her...and I just eventually realised that the baby was me. It was funny though because it wasnt a surprise - it was as though I had always known, just never thought of it before. I am finding my new search for my birth family exciting and terrifying in equal measure. My adopted mum knows I am searching and is finding it quite difficult. She is happy for me to get medical records - understands why that concerns me now I have 3 little girls of my own - but doesnt really want me to have any contact with birth mother. Is it such a mix of anxiety, guilt and curiousity for every one - or do I just have 'issues'? Oh - and the help I have received from members of this site has been absolutely amazing! Helen Added by Bacardi Slice No Ice on 15/07/2006 21:04:35 hi all i think it is a process all adoptees go through in there life,i felt exactly the same when i had my children we all need to know the resons behind our adoption just to move on with our life and to persue finding our birth family if you feel the need to i have meet my birth family and its not all honki doree,we come from diffrent backgrounds to start off with so i think there was always going to be problems bacardi xxxxxx Added by J e S S on 15/07/2006 21:18:07 I think my Mum and Dad always knew i'd search for my birth mother . I didnt exactly tell them I was actively doing it when I actually did , although when I got to the point of meeting BM, they knew I was going ( although i didnt tell them presisely when) .They were the first people I wanted to tell when i had done it though. I asked Mum if she minded ( afterwards, mind you!) and she said No. She said she knew it ws something i wanted to do and felt that if she'd said not to, being me, my curiosity would have taken over and I'd have wanted to do it even more! bit of reverse psychology on her part I think! Mum and Dad are totally brilliant with my full birth sister, and have met he on many occasions. Mum says - (or used to say as she now has altzheimers) - that there is no reason on this earth that we shouldn't be friends and enjoy time together - we didnt ask to be born , or seperated for that matter. I think an adoptive parents worry isnt so much that we'll abandon them in favour of Birth parents - maybe some do- but Mum and Dad said their only worry was that I would get hurt in the process of finding out. Jess Added by Margaret Rider on 16/07/2006 14:26:33 In the 1940's and 50's there was little known about the power of the bond between mother and child. Through their research authorities have determined that when the mother/child entity is split it causes an acute and lasting trauma in both mother and child. Repercussions are ominous and tenacious though they are deeply buried inside and remain throughout both the mother and childs life. A child's first experience with the adoptive family is in everyone elses happiness over his or her tragedy. There is a belief that even love will make it disappear. Some experts even think that this dismissal to be the adoptee's second trauma. Many adoptees have often been told that their mothers loved them so much that they gave them away! What sense does this make? If my mother loved me so much then why did she give me away - therefore there must be something wrong with me which then creates low self-esteem. Low self-esteem leads to pleasing people. Often adoptees are exemplary people-pleasers. For many adoptees it is easy to fall into despair and feel powerless over many circumstances that other people can overcome with relative ease. We can become obsessed with controlling other parts of our lives. Often we can become depressed. No matter how much love and care we are given the truth still is that we are someone elses child. We exhaust ourselves emotionally pretending otherwise because we believe it will ensure our survival and prevent another abandonment. We also place a lot of energy in wondering what our birth mother was like. Trust is a common problem among adoptees. Do we tend to trust anyone and everyone? Abandonment is another issue - does this feeling ever leave us? Despite all the above adoptees smile. We smile to hide a world of hurt that neither we nor the rest of the world want to face. Next time you encounter a happy and grateful adoptee who had wonderful adoptive parents and a wonderful life have a little closer look! The above is not written to hurt anyone but I believe there is a great deal of truth in this for a lot of adoptees. It would be nice to hear your views on this. Margaret Added by J e S S on 16/07/2006 14:33:49 I think I agree quite with a lot of what you say - however not particually for the reasons you say. quote: ''Next time you encounter a happy and grateful adoptee who had wonderful adoptive parents and a wonderful life have a little closer look!'' What do I look for? - I'm looking at me.I'm a reasonably happy adoptee - I f i look at everything that happens to me as deep seated in my adoptive circumstances I think I'd go off my trolley! jess Added by Margaret Rider on 16/07/2006 14:49:31 Yes Jess Perhaps I w

Added by Rebecca Carter on 11/07/2006 16:55:13 Hi BSNO I was born in 78 and the adoption was finalised through the courts in 79. I guess I've been lucky and not had to go through SS as I was 'found' on here right at the beginning of my search. Although I have just requested my file from the agency involved. The SS dept for the area I live in have not got any funding available at the mo for post adoption support and have already allocated next years budget to helping birth relatives find adopted relatives. Quite ironic really when my older brother made attempts to find me a few years ago but was told by the agency not to go sticking his nose in the past. So I guess a big thank you to this site else nodoubt I would be a bit stuck and in limbo. Rebecca Added by Rebecca Carter on 11/07/2006 16:56:25 sorry that should say BSNI typo - whooops sorry x Added by Lorna Potter on 11/07/2006 20:49:22 Hi just droppin in with an update I have had my chat with SS well she sat telling me how I felt like all other adoptees My records are held by a trust so am still waiting for them to arrive I have got my birth cert that was interesting . No father showing at which I wasn't that surprised but apparently my BM was a domestic servant (in 1956) and apparently was an essex girl . So I reckon I have been right all along my dad is a real posh rich lord or something (yeah right) or I might be Phillips !!! LOL hmmm let me see Princess Lorna oh well time will tell I suppose SS bod doesn't seem to do anything unless I keep pesterin I hope my records are intersting after all this wait well sorry for ramblin take care all chins up Added by Eileen Bowman on 12/07/2006 00:00:35 Hi Bacardi - I was born in 1944 and adopted in 1946 - very different attitudes in those days. There were a very large number of babies available to 'cure' infertility. Not my words by the way. Mostly, if possible we were passed off as natural children of our adoptive parents.. People had moved about a lot in wartime and in many instances this could be got away with. Not in my case as I was a two-year old. My parents absolutely never made any secret about my birth, in fact my mother constantly told me how I was chosen, and told anyone else who was interested - or not. This did not always prove to be a good tactic as the stigma was still very strong then and I could easily recognise when I was being looked at as 'different'. Difficult behaviour at school was 'expected because she is adopted' Actually I think I was just bored. Being brought up to make no secret of it also backfired with some people I met. A new 'friend' faded away very quickly when it came up in conversation, and also my then boyfriend's parents did not want it to be known by his sisters. (He went on to be my ex-husband, and one of his sisters had a baby conceived well pre-marriage, and was turned out of her parents house) So 'what goes around comes around' as they say - never quite sure what it means!!! Actually I don't think that the stigma has faded very much over the years. Its a difficult call, although many more illegitimate children stay with their mother and father without wedlock, and stay with mother alone when father is out of the picture, I still feel that marriage is less hassle for the child in the long run. Although I also would not like to see marriage just because of a child. All fence sitters join up here. Our elder daughter has our lovely grandson, now four and a half. She and his father split up amicably, and I think very sensibly, when baby was a few months old. They would have hated eachother had they married. Little one's father is still a valued member of our family, is now with our younger daughter, and they suit eachother very well. Elder daughter has a new 'other half' who has now been with us all for nearly four years and is a super Dadda-two or Dadda-too to our grandson.. We are very lucky, and they all get along well. They, and we, all share the little lad, and hopefully we all get the best of all worlds. Everyone has fun with him, and also everyone has a rest from him. This is important when forming new relationships that come as a package. So, as I say, I am a fence-sitter. I was brought up in a strongly church going ethos. Sex outside marriage was WRONG - how then to justify one's own existance as being obviously the product of sex outside marriage. I expect lots of academic people write lots of academic thesis about all this, but at the end of the day the reality has to be dealt with whatever way we can. By the way, does anyone know where my full sister is? her birth name was Jennifer Ann, born 22nd September 1945 in Woking Maternity Hospital, our mother Muriel Ethel M......t lived in Bisley. Eileen Added by Bacardi Slice No Ice on 12/07/2006 17:34:34 many thanks for your stories,im not been nosey honest,i just like to see how things were thought of and how diffrent generations relate to adoption i had a strange up bringing but my adopted parents were old enough to be my grandparents which was sometimes difficult but they did love us and i know we wouldnt of had a good upbringing if we had stayed with birth parents hugs bacardi xxxxx Added by Beverly- Michelle on 12/07/2006 19:14:06 Hi all, just been reading this thread in the hope that someone may be the sister that I have been looking for. (Born late '60's) Do you read the other thread started by Jess? And how many people do you think read this website? I have posted endless messages on the other thread in the hope that she may be reading it. Take care, Bev. Added by Bacardi Slice No Ice on 12/07/2006 19:26:04 hi bev you can never add to many messages to any board when looking for your sister i wish you well in your search and keep us updated with your progress we love happy endings bacardi xxxx Added by Ann from Oz on 13/07/2006 01:01:14 Hi all Eileen, Just a thought....Have you tried VANISH in australia.....your sister may have moved to oz. Vanish are on the net. They are very slow didnt help my BS very much....I found more information of our BM from here.......but they maybe able to help you. I know alot of kids were brought over here from the UK in those years. Hope this is a help Hi to mel...my BM also lives in UK so I also cant see a meeting happening unless we win tattslotto. Annxx Added by Eileen Bowman on 13/07/2006 14:28:41 Thanks Ann - had not heard of Vanish, but will certainly try it. (Actually over here we have a stain remover called Vanish - lol ) I had sometimes wondered if my sister might have ended up in Australia as many couples went out there on the assisted passages shortly after the war - I'm off to the site now. Thanks again Eileen Added by Ann from Oz on 14/07/2006 02:57:41 Hi all Eileen...Found the net address for VANISH. www.vicnet.net.au/~vanish. Took me a while to find sorry. Hope this will help you. Annxx Added by Margaret Rider on 15/07/2006 18:46:03 Is there anyone who has already either met or had contact with their birth family members and now regrets doing so? I often wonder about this and how it has affected their lives. I always had this urge especially when I had my own children to know who I looked like. Do you think this is one of the main issues of why we search or do we just want to know why we were put for adoption? Margaret Added by Helen Hughes on 15/07/2006 19:20:40 I was born and adopted in 1968. My parents used to tell me a bedtime story about a baby whose mum couldnt look after her...and I just eventually realised that the baby was me. It was funny though because it wasnt a surprise - it was as though I had always known, just never thought of it before. I am finding my new search for my birth family exciting and terrifying in equal measure. My adopted mum knows I am searching and is finding it quite difficult. She is happy for me to get medical records - understands

Added by &#1645;&#1645;Mel in Oz &#1645;&#1645; on 10/07/2006 13:00:11 Hi All, Thank you Jennifer for you description of the crowd it brought a smile to my face, ohh and made me reach for the red wine. I can not even begin to image you husbands feelings, though by the sounds of you, you seem to be a very warm and caring person, the angels must have smiled on him for what he has endured and given him you. It is good of you to read this adoption thread as I am sure it would give you an insight of other adoptees. I was the eldest in my adopted family so the only sibling I had was younger than me and adopted also, so I can not comment on that. Cya Mel Added by &#1645;&#1645;Mel in Oz &#1645;&#1645; on 10/07/2006 13:04:20 Hi Rebecca, I am so pleased for you to have meet your BM, BS and BB. Can I ask how did that go, if thats not to personal. My BM lives in the UK which is where I was adopted but I am pretty sure I will never meet my BM, but I do love to hear others stories. Cya Mel Added by Rebecca Carter on 10/07/2006 14:52:31 Hi Mel Thanks for your message, I have sent you a message about the first meeting. Briefly it went very well and surprisingly we all managed not to cry, we'd done so much in the weeks running up to I think we'd dried up and it was a happy day so no need for tears. You never know where your BM could be now, mine ended up about 10/12 miles away from where I grew up and my BGM is only about 10 miles from where I live now. I know its still in the same country, but there have been so many 'spookys' I'd never rule anything out. Rebecca Added by Rebecca Carter on 10/07/2006 15:27:54 Hellooo All This isnt tried or tested by me but I was under the impression that since the law change in december 2005 birth relatives of an adoptive person can apply for info? theres a link on the Norcap web page that anybody looking or wanting to know what information might be availalbe can have a nosey at the link below http://www.norcap.org.uk/birthrelativeIS.asp Hope it helps and the path isnt full of unhelpful Social Workers Rebecca x Added by Eileen Bowman on 11/07/2006 00:20:19 Well, as usual if you don't tune in for a day or two, many more amazing and touching stories appear. Is anyone else watching 'only fools on horses' Anna Rider Richardson, of Changing Rooms fame, is one of the celebs. bravely taking on Show Jumping. In one of the interviewing moments a couple of nights ago she said that she was adopted. (The show is actually to raise money for Sports Relief, but she made the point that because of being adopted she really wanted to help any underpriviledged children because she had been lucky). Also lets try to help Vicky who is thinking of setting up a website for unwanted certs. I know we have two threads for this. One for ordinary certs, and one for adoptions thanks to Honey Rum, but they keep slipping back, and we can't nudge everything for adoptees all the time 'cos other folks might get cross!!! A new website especially for adoptees might be very useful especially if we were able to have a lot of input as to how it could be cross-referenced. I know there are lots of sites, but they all seem to lack something somewhere. My special plea would be for an area specifically for 'war babies' Time is running out for us with regard to parents. And also for our siblings and half-siblings as the generation above takes with it all sorts of little snippets of knowledge. Sorry for rambling on, but I've not been on for several days. Eileen Added by Pain In The.... on 11/07/2006 00:58:12 Hi Eileen I am planning on looking into that over the next week. I am looking for a freewebs site that doesnt have limited space. Most of them I have looked at wouldnt last long. But I will get back to you on this. I'm hoping to be able to separate it into catergories, e.g. areas, male, female etc. I will let you know how I get on Jayne Added by Pain In The.... on 11/07/2006 01:00:14 P.S If I can sort it I will be coming back on here for help and suggestions. Jayne Added by Bacardi Slice No Ice on 11/07/2006 13:20:35 hi all just wondering(like i do) what generation were you adopted and did oppinons differ on adoption in diffrent years i was fosterd in the 60s but officially adopted in the 70s,alot of effort was put in to place me back with my birth parents but this wasnt possible we had quiet a bit of contact with birth parents when we were younger but when 2yrs had passed and no contact had been made we were adopted would love to hear your views and stories bacardi xx Added by Rebecca Carter on 11/07/2006 16:55:13 Hi BSNO I was born in 78 and the adoption was finalised through the courts in 79. I guess I've been lucky and not had to go through SS as I was 'found' on here right at the beginning of my search. Although I have just requested my file from the agency involved. The SS dept for the area I live in have not got any funding available at the mo for post adoption support and have already allocated next years budget to helping birth relatives find adopted relatives. Quite ironic really when my older brother made attempts to find me a few years ago but was told by the agency not to go sticking his nose in the past. So I guess a big thank you to this site else nodoubt I would be a bit stuck and in limbo. Rebecca Added by Rebecca Carter on 11/07/2006 16:56:25 sorry that should say BSNI typo - whooops sorry x Added by Lorna Potter on 11/07/2006 20:49:22 Hi just droppin in with an update I have had my chat with SS well she sat telling me how I felt like all other adoptees My records are held by a trust so am still waiting for them to arrive I have got my birth cert that was interesting . No father showing at which I wasn't that surprised but apparently my BM was a domestic servant (in 1956) and apparently was an essex girl . So I reckon I have been right all along my dad is a real posh rich lord or something (yeah right) or I might be Phillips !!! LOL hmmm let me see Princess Lorna oh well time will tell I suppose SS bod doesn't seem to do anything unless I keep pesterin I hope my records are intersting after all this wait well sorry for ramblin take care all chins up Added by Eileen Bowman on 12/07/2006 00:00:35 Hi Bacardi - I was born in 1944 and adopted in 1946 - very different attitudes in those days. There were a very large number of babies available to 'cure' infertility. Not my words by the way. Mostly, if possible we were passed off as natural children of our adoptive parents.. People had moved about a lot in wartime and in many instances this could be got away with. Not in my case as I was a two-year old. My parents absolutely never made any secret about my birth, in fact my mother constantly told me how I was chosen, and told anyone else who was interested - or not. This did not always prove to be a good tactic as the stigma was still very strong then and I could easily recognise when I was being looked at as 'different'. Difficult behaviour at school was 'expected because she is adopted' Actually I think I was just bored. Being brought up to make no secret of it also backfired with some people I met. A new 'friend' faded away very quickly when it came up in conversation, and also my then boyfriend's parents did not want it to be known by his sisters. (He went on to be my ex-husband, and one of his sisters had a baby conceived well pre-marriage, and was turned out of her parents house) So 'what goes around comes around' as they say - never quite sure what it means!!! Actually I don't think that the stigma has faded very much over the years. Its a difficult call, although many more illegitimate children stay with their mother and father without wedlock, and stay with mother alone when father is out of the picture, I still feel that marriage is less hassle for the child in the long run