Genealogy Chat

Ann I think we are both refering to the same post. Clive My point exactly, there are other methods which may require a little effort and getting out of the front door. Before someone comes back and says 'i live miles away' well i live a good way from most of the records i need. Some are Scottish, some English, Canadian, Australian,Italian and American. There are ways and means, but if i had a pound for every time i have seen someone hit a 'brickwall' because something isn't online i would be a very rich man. Glen

I haven't bought an enormous number of certificates but I have looked through hundreds of original records and made copies of parish registers, census details etc. Sometimes though it can be brought home to us how important it is to be very careful. A while ago I made contact with someone researching one of my names. My grandfather's aunt was her ancestor and we began regular 'chats' by e-mail. She had been looking at this branch for longer than I had so could share information with me. She put me in touch with distant cousins in Canada and they sent me lovely photos of my 2x great grandparents and my great grandmother. As time went on and we discussed the family, things didn't quite fit. We had exactly the same name and year and our relation in common had a daughter we both knew about yet some details of the family didn't match what an older family member actually remembered. Eventually my new friend bought her ancestor's birth certificate and discovered to her horror that for several years she had been researching the wrong tree. Within a few streets in the same city and born in the same year were two women with the same not very usual name who both had daughters called Hilda! The Canadian cousins and all her research are mine but not hers! However she is now an 'honourary' cousin and we are still chatting! I also discovered on part of my very early ancestry (which I have seen in other people's trees online) something I think is an error. I have seen two versions of it here on GR and on Rootsweb and after a lot of research online and by writing letters to museums and university libraries I have made my own decision about what is likely. I tried telling some of my contacts and they weren't interested. I think that having collected the names it didn't seem to matter to them that what they had didn't make sense. I believe they think that it was all so long ago that it doesn't matter but to me it is important to get it as right as I can or we just go on copying and sharing errors. It's great fun doing this though and a real puzzle sometimes. Sue

On the subject of certs ..... no you don't always need a cert. There are two issues involved. The first is one of corroboration. Sometimes online resources can provide that. I had one good example just today when I check on the name of (who I think is ) the husband only to find the in-laws and the niece (who I do know for certain) on the return. That provided me with the corroboration. The 2nd thing that a cert can provide is more precise information. That is valuable but not always necessary. On the subject of 'getting out the armchair'. All fine and well if you are reasonably close to the sources. I recently exchanged info with a gentleman from New Zealand. Its rather hard to get to the Derbyshire Parish records from New Zealand!

Well Charles if you had bothered to read my post properly you would see that i have said there are ways and means. You will also see that i have obtained records for events in several countries, i didn't do it all online and i didn't travel three times round the world either.I am in the UK so Australia isn't just round the corner for me either. Aussie records are far more difficult to obtain for later events than earlier English parish records whereever your armchair happens to be. I managed to find out who and where to contact,it wasn't that difficult, mostly google searches to find addesses and good old fashioned letters and stamps for the rest. Glen

There is a good deal of control-freakery in genealogy. I would be a rich man too, like Glen, if I had a pound for every time I have read that 'if you don't have the proof' (by which is meant having every possible certificate and will going) then you know NOTHING - it probably all went wrong as early as your Grannie, and your tree isn't worth spit ... etc. etc. I laugh. What else can you do?

I think this is turning into a ( my research is better than your research post ) If we all get far enough back in our trees we will probably find we are all related anyway.

I would say that about 20% of the certs which I have bought have given me a big shock. I have a photo of my Gt Grandfather with his siblings and his parents at a wedding. I have the whole family on 3 census returns. His birth certificate shows a blank space for the father's name. No one in my family knew that little detail. Further back, I have a birth certificate for a middle child of 10 siblings, my direct ancestor. All exactly as it should be. My nitpickyness demanded I find his baptism - aha! HE is illegitimate, the son of the sister of the couple who registered his birth as their own child. I often wish there was a way we could show, against our names on here, a sort of ranking of how serious we are a bout this subject. 4 stars would mean - I am deadly serious and committed to this hobby and want it to be as accurate as I, and written records, can possibly make it. I require several pieces of primary source proof for everyone I claim as a relative. 3 stars would mean - I am very committed and serious, but I am happy with documented proof of some sort. 2 stars would mean - I am serious but only if I can do it on the IGI. 1 star would mean - it is all a bit of fun and I want as many names as I can possibly get without the slightest effort and expense to myself. The people on my tree don't have to be correct, but lots of them please - and quickly. OC

Going back to the orignal post - yes some, a minority are rude and demand to see your tree, I either ignore them or I ask how they think they are related. If it seems someone is in my blood line I will ask a few more questions and then I will open my tree, but I ask them only to take what is their relations - not my OH's side that has no bearing on them. What I don't do is open my tree for anyone who is very very distant to me - EG - someone who is related to a person on my tree who married into my family, I just PM them with the info I have for that particular connection. I have been stung too many times by people taking my tree and putting it on theirs when the connection is so small it isn't worth anything at all. I will share but only what is relevent Joanne

OC love the idea, LOL.. I do try and get the certs as well as church records, in most cases the more rural ones have been more difficult to place via the church as they seem to jump from village to village at will. Based on finding the church i then tend to try and get the certs from the local register office and avoid the missing GRO records. What does gall me though is when someone claims to share someone from 5 or 6 generations ago but needs every copy of my certs. I have several instances of a name running through several generations and all the cousins in each generation also have the same name. (one name appears 22 times over 6 generations, funny how i never know which George they are referring to!! If i dont reveal everything for everyone one of them then they spit the dummy. The only line i don't have to the present day will lead to second cousins, so anyone who contacts me regarding another surname i have is not a direct rellie anyway. If by not handing over every cert and church record/census return/will and probate record/trade directory reference/ military career/medal card etc i am classed as miserable then so be it. I have shared quite a bit of info with people but when it comes down to it i have proved that it is out there to find. The depth of my research is what i value and protect, quality outweighs quantity every time. Even my homepage does not have a vast amount of in depth detail entered, but for anyone who can access google they will find more about most of my rellies than just a name and a date. Glen

Rona Take a copy of your tree and start again, that is the best thing to do then you can pick out all the correct info, many of us made mistakes and have had to rectify them, it is probably less trouble to start again, also that way you can see where you went wrong, if you need any help just either post in the forum or PM and i will try to help you. kind regrards pat

Rona Have you got a brick wall or perhaps you don't know where to look? Which area are you looking in and which names? I am sure there are folks who could help a bit on here. Send me a message and I'll have a think if you like. Try asking for help on the records threads or trying to find threads if you haven't already. Good luck Sue

Rona Very happy to help you - but I doubt if looking at my tree would help you much. Put a thread up and let us see how we can help you. If you just mean you have mucked up your tree, well, so have I, on GR, cannot be bothered with all the long-winded corrections and so I put my tree on Tribal Pages - it is free and very easy to do. OC

Rona We all get it wrong at times but as OC has said I doubt that showing you my tree would be any help whatsoever! I have been trying to input my tree on my own Generations Grande Suite Programme and believe me you do make mistakes when you are inputting information, they just happen and I scratch my head wondering how on earth I could have made that mistake. I suppose it all depends whether you mean you have climbed the wrong tree, or whether you have just input the information incorrectly causing you headaches that way. If the latter then the answer is to sit down calmly and work out where you went wrong and it does eventually turn itself around. If you have climbed the wrong tree then that is more complicated to extricate yourself from but a bit like a computer going wrong you will have to get back to the point where you know you were correct and put to one side all those parts of the tree that are incorrect. If you know that the incorrect parts are totally wrong then delete, but if you are unsure then just put that part of the tree to one side for now. Whether you do this on Genes Trees or your own Family History Programme is another matter. I personally have given up on the Genes site as far as a tree is concerned, and probably most other areas of Genes Reunited as well but that's another story! As far as opening trees is concerned I have been on here more than once on this topic and I do not waver in my own thinking. I have never asked or wanted to see someone else's tree. I want to do the research myself and I only need half a clue to set me off on another track. People who are really interested in Family History or Genealogy do not need any body else's tree to do their own research. I contact people with a specific point. It is usually concerned with a person or persons living in the same area born at the same time and getting married to what looks like the same person. That person then comes back with either an affirmative or not. If affirmative then proceed with caution through your own E mail system, and if the information you are getting is likely to be of interest to both of you then send each other the parts of the tree interesting to that person. This has worked very well for me finding Irish relatives in the States. I am in the process of doing a gedcom file for my Father's Irish side of the family for my new found cousins in the States. They do not want my mother's Scottish side of the family. I have just met a possible cousin in Scotland who is sending me loads of info, in some ways a bit too much for my liking, as I have not yet totally proved that I am part of that family. However, I am closer than the States and am trying to solve a couple of mysteries for her. I share BUT I only share with people that I know are really part of my family. Sharing your tree with all and sundry is qite a pointless exercise. As for certificates well my great Grandfather had 10 children betweeen 1865 and 1886 and I have bought birth certs for 9 of them. Costly yes, but the certs led me all over the country from Ireland to Sheffield, Portsmouth and all over London as well as his different occupations. Now I know where all the siblings were born and what age I can look for them all on the Census and find their families right through to 1901.Worth the money I spent? Yes, Yes and Yes again because those certs gave me so many clues that I have been able to use my detective powers to the full and I have a wonderful clear picture of my great grandfathers life which I would not have had if I just bought my grandmothers Birth Cert. His life and times were more important to me than a few dates on a tree. Its like everything else in life you get what you pay for. And I will say once more that Family History/Genealogy has never been a cheap interest or hobby. Janet

Have seen a couple of people mention finding info when living in Australia, New Zealand etc. I live in Oz and have found the LDSC are excellent in otaining films of Parish Registers. It costs me $A5 (probably a couple of quid), the films take about 2 weeks to arrive, the lovely lady at the Oxley LDSC rings to let me know they've arrived, I arrange a convenient time when a viewer will be available, and just hope against hope I will find that elusive record. They are all so very helpful at our local LDSC.

Not only LDS Centres hold the GRO Index, but also bigger libraries throughout the country hold these GRO Index Records. If you are spoilt by 1837 Online/Ancestry you may find the fiche a little different, but this was the way it was always done up until about 6/7 years ago. Libraries are free and you will not have to order up the GRO Indexes, they are already there, although you may have to book a fiche reader. The Internet is less than 10 years old and many of us have been doing Family History/Genealogy for 30/40 years and more! Janet

Someone on here contacted me last week about a name in my tree that had appeared in their hot matches. It wasnt the same person as their's was in the south of England and mine in the Midlands. I don't know why they bothered to contact me in the first place as it was obvious from the geography that there was no connection. I told them there was no connection and told them why. This morning I received another PM from them asking to see my tree. WHY? I have asked them if perhaps they don't believe me. They won't have any luck viewing my tree anyway, as I deleted it 2 days ago. I get the impression though that they are trying to MAKE it fit. I just don't understand the thinking of some people. Margaret

Rona, Rona, Rona, Well said girl, I personally don`t give a gnats behind who I help. I have only been researching my family for about 18 months, I have been down more dead ends than you could shake a stick at. The help I have had from this site has been fantastic and if I can give a little back i am only too willing. I have had possible 'distant' relations make contact, some have been very forthcomeing, others short and not at all the type of rellie I want. Yes, I know that the info is there for anyone to access and the fact that I have found it does not mean that it is 'MINE'. I have made some very important family contacts from this site and we have exchanged info/photo`s and stories. I do not keep my tree on this site, in fact it is a hard copy only, penciled notations that can be rubbed out if/when they are corrected. The info is not transfered to my 'best' copy until the relevant cert has been obtained and therefor verified. Go on, do something nice today, be as you would be done by. Kathlyn

Kathlyn Afraid I'm with Glen. I would much rather do my own research. Always check everything anyway. I would hate it if someone handed me generation after generation of a tree already done. A lttle nudge, yes, but lock stock and barrel, no thanks. Margaret

I have to say that after almost 40 years of researching but probably about 15 serious years, I have yet to go down a 'wrong' road or climb someone else's tree! And perseverance, deeper research, googling, use of libraries, books, magazines, Family History Societies, Record Offices and commonsense usually breaks down many of my brick walls. Not sure what that says about my research! I am puzzled as to how you can go down the wrong road, if the research is done strictly going back from yourself and getting your certs on the way, and even if you do not get all siblings as I have got, certainly you must have parents and grandparents marriage and birth details. The hot matches are a big joke and I get so many Joe Bloggs, not from my little hamlet in Northants, but from Australia/NZ North of England and I cannot delete them fast enough! I suggest that those who rely on the IGI alone may be the ones who find themselves barking up the wrong trees? Janet

I have gone seriously wrong twice in my 35 year- odd search. First time, a naive newbie to any form of research, I was very pleased to find my James Holden, baptised in the PR, where I expected him to be. I looked no further and ASSUMED he was mine. Some years later, it dawned on me that there was more than one. Also, a look at the 1861 census gave me an entirely different birth place for him. I had to discard several years, and about 10 generations, of work.However, that exercise turned me into the nitpicker I am today. Second time was when I got the Internet and found the LDS. Excitedly printed off dozens of pages of 'my' James Holden, only to sit down later to check it all - and realise it was utter rubbish. I had no idea that people made up fantasy trees! OC