Genealogy Chat

Kath. i see what you are saying, but as i see it that means you can produce small amounts of data for your own research, not every person that asks for a look up, just your own family related to you, and again Kath, why is it only this site that allows you to do this, Ancestrys own message boards do not allow it either, just because your son is a copper does not mean he knows everything about the law, i work with a recently retired ex chief constable, and i would not let him out on his own.

Gary, I don't wish to get into another argument with you, but you are wrong. My son works for the police and he has advised me that due to the terms and conditions of a subscriber's licence (copied and pasted below), you are permitted to reproduce online any piece of data relating to a family or genealogy. The only times you would be breaking this licence is if you were to publish online a large segment of Ancestry's database rather than just what relates to an individual's family research, or sell look-ups which would be classed as commercial use of the data. *********** Limited Use LICENCE You are licensed to use the Content only for personal or professional family history research, and may download Content only as search results relevant to that research. The download of the whole or material parts of any work or database is prohibited. Resale of a work or database or portion thereof, except as specific results relevant to specific research for an individual, is prohibited. Online or other republication of Content is prohibited except as unique data elements that are part of a unique family history or genealogy. Violation of this limited use licence may result in immediate termination of your membership and may result in legal action against you. You may use the software provided on the Service only while online and may not download, copy, reuse or distribute that software, except where it is clearly stated in connection with software that it is made available for offline use, and a licence for such use is provided in connection with that software. ****************************** Kath. x

Sylvia one of the points i was trying to make, is that to copy and paste information from another site breachs their copy right, it is illigal just like buying lhe latest film and copying it for all your freinds, no other site allows this, only genes allow you to break the law in this way, in theory, as with the record industry, they get a handful of people and sue them for severel thousand pounds for illegaly downloading music, if Ancestry started losing money through reduced customers, they in theory could sue you for your house and home, i guess they never will, but it is worrying genes in theory could put you in that position, like i say go on roots Chat and try pasting anything from Ancestry and you will be barred in an instant.

Gary ........ please remember one thing. Not all of us live in the UK and can personally visit registry offices, cemeteries or any other site on a weekly basis. We HAVE to depend on the internet sites, and on help from people. I have been a member of GR since 2003, and have had some of my tree on here since then, adding more as the fit takes me (I have lots more information that I probably will not put on here). I have just recently started trying to help others asking questions ..... and do what you so obviously dislike, c&p from ancestry or wherever. However, I have also noticed one thing ....... that is that some people (may be just a few) seem to want others to do all the work for them! My view is that I am helping them find information that they have searched for but not found .........a fresh pair of eyes (or thought process) is sometimes all that is needed. BUT it is not MY job to set it all out for them ..... they have to do something as well. Just as I would expect to do that if I had asked for and received help from someone else on here. As for not being a serious site ........... I always tell people to remember that the names they find on GR have been entered by someone, not finding a name is not a definitive that person does not exist. It just means that someone has not yet entered it. It also means that all information taken from here should be double checked just in case! So please try to put yourself in someone else's shoes for once, and think what it might be like for you if you lived in Canada (as I do) or Australia or wherever, and don't be so dogmatic!

Gary I agree, Genes is not a serious genealogical Site, which is one of the major reasons I will not be renewing my sub. Despite that reservation, I have met many people on here who ARE serious researchers - they tend to be the givers of information, not the takers. The recent explosion of interest in Family History has a lot more to do with it being on-line than anything else. Faced with the prospect of doing it the old-fashioned, hard (and more accurate) way, many people do not bother. It is very sad that there are very few sites dedicated to real and serious genealogical research. Does that make me elitist? Well, let's hear it for elitism then, cos I'm sick of seeing trees which have 180 year old men fathering children on the other side of the world! OC

I think there are interested people on here , not so much as in yesteryear maybe, but still folks that want to find a way to get started. I'll agree, serious researches wouldn't give this place more than a fleeting glance anymore

that was genes, is seen as a bogus site with no interest to people with a serious interest in family research, not the 'other side' of which i know nothing about, apart from all those that were on here that are now not

Well, i beg to differ Gary, it does contain some damned good stuff in my opinion, and it's being put together BY and FOR the members. It does actually need folks that know what they are doing and where to seek further than just census stuff. I class you as someone that DOES know what they are doing,

i do not think i would be welcome on the 'other side' i am too out spoken for delicate souls,as i see it this site is just full of chit chatters, going as i do to local studies librarys on a weekly bases, i offten canves opinion on this site, and get the impression that all serious researches think it is bougus, and not used by any, but arm chair researches.

Gary - in doing that Reg is doing his best , as are others. I tend ( or maybe should now say tended cos I wont do many more ) to remove the superflous info when i though it would confuse particually new enquirers, when ancestry added parents names, as part of an idndividual record, 'greensticks' got completely confused!! interested in joining the new place? it good for serious researchers! Jess

Point Taken old crone, reggie is just one of many that just copy and paste an whole list of data, that has no meaning and with all those 'view record' included must look confusing, when i did do look ups on here, i always took the time to list the people, from head downwards, and list age place of birth ocupation, etc, address, piece no etc, but these quick replies with a result full of no use data, to me seems slack and unthought out, take a few seconds and make the result look intersting, by puting the data in some sort of order.

OC I agree with you. Well said.

Gary As this Site ALLOWS copy and paste, then why should people bother to do anything else? As you so rightly point out, other sites do not allow this and clearly state that fact. GR isn't bothered what you do and has no guidelines on this matter. And it is not fair to single out Reggie - EVERYBODY does it on this Site. OC.

i agree with old crone, there are people on here that have had ancestry a few months, and then do look ups on the census from there only, and think thats the be all and end all of research, and most just copy and paste the ancestry result on here, which is totally illegal, try doing that on roots chat and you will be deleated straight away, i have spent days at the records office looking at parish records, and at £20 an hour i would not have paid anybody to do that, this site gives a distorted look at genealogy, like i say all those replies with ' view record ' are copyed from another website, which is illegal. you should transcribe the data, into a way that shows the result, but has not been copyed and pasted, Reggie the biggest culprit

I paid £12.50 for an Irish research on familyulster.. Felt it was worth it although they didn`t find my greatgrandmother. Ros

Jess, I'm not going to bicker with you. You take all the umbrage you like, and I wish you well as you move on to pastures new. OC, I was suprised to see that Ancestry T&C do licence their material for private AND professional ancestry research. Different rules might apply to Crown copyright in some images, but I suspect that if the copyright is acknowledged, it is not infringed.

I am not sure of the rules, but wouldn't Ancestry be rather put out if you used their site for commercial gain (or any other site, for that matter). Or wouldn't they care, as long as you paid? I know that LDS History Centres have a strict policy of not allowing their information to be used for commercial gain by professional researchers - I was present when one such woman was kicked out! On the other hand, as you have a 'specialist subject' as it were, in Irish genealogy, then I would imagine it would be possible to make at least a part-time wage, if not a full-time one, depending on how good you are at it. I too have seen some so-called professional research which has made me weep. And the person paying for it never questions a word of it, no matter how bizarre it appears - quote Gildert de Holden b abt 1301, died abt 1388, followed by five or six unknown generations, William Holden1501. (And the information on those 'five or six unknown generations' is in the Records Office!) OC

Clive yes i do know what vicarious means,and dont really see as it is appropriate. i have done more than anyone else to help this guy make the best of what he did recieve for that £600 than the researcher himself did (vicarious means ''experienced as a result of watching, listening to or reading about the activities of other people, rather than by doing the activities yourself:'') I take umbridge at anyone calling anyone else a silly bugger without the full facts

Jess, as it wasn't you, it's a bit rich taking vicarious umbrage. But thank you for thinking me elloquent.

I dont think it would pay well for a main job but maybe a side one? Maybe for someone semi retired or retired. I'm sure there are some people out there who would pay money for it, epecially if you could lookup things for them at are not available on the internet. I'd love to go into something familyhistory/archivist. There are a couple of graduate degrees that i might look into in my final year or before because for some you need some work experience for. I'd love to work in the Edinburgh GRO, they could give me the supervisor job in the Doom and i'd be quite content. Helping customers with problems while looking up stuff in my free time on the computer. I mean i dont have a clue what i want to do (gaining Politics degree at the moment and no! i'm not going into politics) but i'd rather be doing something i enjoy than not.