Genealogy Chat

Thanks June. I have been trying to find Jane Ward - John's wife to absolutely no avail. I ran a search for ANY Ward married to Moss and found nothing! I think I need to try to find Walter and HIlda (John's siblings) to see if their mother's name is any different. I think he is the Walter James Moss reg Jul-Sep 1894 1c 616 and she is the Hilda Winifred Moss reg Jan-Mar 1901 1c 420 As Thomas (grandad) wasn't born until 1907 (6 years after Hilda) I suppose it is possible that it's a second marriage?

Marriages Dec 1864 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Moss Henry Poplar 1c 1252 Williams Ellen Poplar 1c 1252 June x

Thanks Sylvia - it's all so exciting, fascinating and frustrating at the same time! Working back, my husband's grandfather was Thomas Benjamin Moss born 24/09/07 to John James Moss and Jane Moss formerly Ward. The 1901 census shows John and Jane with two children, Walter and Hilda (my father in laws middle name is Walter and he always wondered where that came from!) That and the fact that John is shown as blind on the census makes me as sure as I can be that he's the one. After that - I am lost.

Stephanie, If you have a copy of John James Moss' birth certificate .................. are you SURE that this is your John James Moss? 'Cos the difference in parentage means that Juen and I are wrong on at least one census! We need to find his marriage (if there was one), as that will give his father's name. Regarding information on the census ....... remember that it is only as good as the memory of the person giving the information! Ages can be as much as 2 years out ................... they were asked how old they were on the day of the census. If their birthday was the next day, that did not matter. SO .................. don't get hung up on the age on a census ................. I always use the approximate birth year + or - 5 years! Birth place depends on how well someone knew where someone else was born ....................... and whether the enumerator recognized the name. For example, 'He was born in Smiths Johns village' 'Never heard of that, where's it near?' 'It's near Grantham, Lincolnshire' .................. so Grantham goes down on the census. Names vary .................. misspellings by the enumerator, later followed by mis-transcriptions by the person who has transcribed the information to put it on the web. And so it goes! It can be very frustrating working out who is who. The best start is to get work back from the present day, and all the certificates you can. Have to go now for a while ....... physiotherapy calls! Sylvia (in Canada)

Wow! Thanks everyone. I got so excited by June's replies that I went off to do some checking and came back to find all this help! I am starting to doubt the 1901 census - I can't figure how he could have been a blacksmith's assistant if he couldn't see! I have bought a copy of a John James Moss' birth certificate - son of Henry Moss and Ellen Moss (Williams) born 8 February 1866 - but I didn't think this was him as he would have been 35 in 1901 census not 34 and there is no mention of blindness. BUT his father's occupation is a Blacksmith Journeyman. It looks like he might have had a career with horses until the accident and then became a hawker - bit of a comedown I guess. I have a photo of him in perhaps his forties - he's definitely blind and is a big bear of a man with huge hands. Anyway, if the 1871 census is correct and he is living with his grandparents age 4, his mother's name must have been Deeks and not Williams. Aaargh! I have a copy of Thomas' birth certiifcate - that's how I know his parents were John James Moss and Jane Ward. x

Stephanie, How do you know his wife was Jane Ward?? I can only find the same marriage registration that June did ......... to a Jane Whiting. Now ................................ there are several possible reasons for this. She could have been married before. They could possibly not have been legally married (far more common in those days than you would think!!!)

Wanda, You are quite right ......... I thought that as I was typing it!!! It does fit the family story, doesn't it?!

This COULD be his birth registration ... time and place are correct. Surname First name(s) District Vol Page -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Births Mar 1866 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Moss John J Poplar 1c 738 To get the certificate .............. go to www*gro*gov*uk (replace * with .), click on Ordering Certificates on the right side oof the screen, follow instructions. Answer YES when asked if you ahve the GRO numbers ..... those are the 2 sets of numbers to the right of the name above (1c 738). Each certificate will cost £7 and will take about 4 to 7 days to arrive (in the UK) Sylvia

Just read this with interest.Only a comment but you did say the theory was he was blinded by a horses tail.In the 1891 he is an Ostler so could he have been blinded in the period between the 1891 and 1901 and not from birth.. Wanda :0)

This COULD be the parents of the John Moss on the 1871 census:- Surname First name(s) District Vol Page -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages Dec 1860 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>Deeks Emma Elizabeth Co[v_]eny Poplar 1c 1055 Kyne Charles Poplar 1c 1055 >>>>Moss John Thomas Poplar 1c 1055 Stone Margaret Poplar 1c 1055

Stephanie, June and I have picked the MOST likely candidate from several men called John Moss born within 5 years of 1867, in the London/Middlesex area. We COULD very well be wrong, so please do NOT assume the information we have given is correct. You will need to double check. The first thing to do is to attempt to get John Moss' birth certificate ...... this will give you his exact birth date, his parents name, and his mother's maiden name. That will verify or not the 1871 census for a start. I'm just about to see if I can find his birth registration, his marriage registration and posssibly his parents registration fro you. Sylvia

Marriages Mar 1894 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Moss John James Mile End vol1c page 561 Whiting Jane Harriet Mile End vol 1c page 561 The district Mile End is an alternative name for Mile End Old Town and it spans the boundaries of the counties of London and Middlesex is this the marriage June x

IF June has found the correct John Moss .............. and there are several with birth years in the correct range, the census images say the following:- 1871 .............. no comment regarding blindness. Grandfather is a Carpenter 1881 .............. no comment re blindness. Striker means Blacksmith's Striker .... ie, labourer who assists a Blacksmith. George and Chas Gibbs and David Bruce are all Blacksmiths 1891 ............... no comment re blindness John is an Ostler at an Inn .................. ie some one who takes care of horses. Sylvia

None of the census say he was blind, and yes they did leave there familys very young to find work. maybe a Blacksmith's Striker need to go out now will be back later + see if i can find anything else June x

Thanks again June - the 1871 result is fascinating in that he appears to have been living with his maternal grandparents. That's a line of enquiry I shall now pursue. It's odd that the blindness isn't mentioned, but maybe his parents just couldn't cope which is why the grandparents took over. Thanks again for all your help. Stephanie x

Hi June I really appreciate your help on this one. Do you know what a striker was? Could a blind person have done the job? In 1901 John was a hawker of fancy goods (not sure how he did that blind either!?) Also, as I am pretty new to this, do you think 15 was a time when boys left home to work or might the family have taken him in? Do any of the other census' mention his blindness? Sorry to throw all these questions at you but I would be thrilled to find out more for the family. Stephanie

1871 census Name: John Moss Age: 4 Estimated birth year: abt 1867 Relation: Grandson Gender: Male Where born: Bromley, Middlesex, England Civil parish: Bromley St Leonard Ecclesiastical parish: St Gabriel County/Island: London Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Poplar Sub-registration district: Bow ED, institution, or vessel: 36 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 163 Household Members: Name Age Alfred Deeks 14 John Deeks 16 Mary Deeks 59 Robert Deeks 59 John Moss 4 June x

1881 census Name: John Moss Age: 15 Estimated birth year: abt 1866 Relation: Servant Gender: Male Where born: Limehouse, Middlesex, England Civil parish: Linchouse County/Island: London Country: England Street address: 1 Turners Place Education: Employment status: View image Occupation: Striker Registration district: Stepney Sub-registration district: Limehouse ED, institution, or vessel: 14 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age David Bruce 47 Chas Gibbs 24 George Gibbs 50 Sarah Gibbs 53 John Moss 15 June x

1891 census maybe Name: John Moss Age: 22 Estimated birth year: abt 1869 Relation: Lodger Gender: Male Where born: Poplar, London, England Civil parish: Limehouse Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter Town: London County/Island: London Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: Stepney Sub-registration district: Limehouse ED, institution, or vessel: 16 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age William Croucher 21 William Hicks 28 John Moss 22 Charles Walford 12 Eleanor Walford 17 Elizabeth Walford 52 Emily Walford 19 George Walford 14 John Walford 16 June x

1901 census for ref Name: John Moss Age: 34 Estimated birth year: abt 1867 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Jane Gender: Male Where born: Poplar, London, England Civil parish: Limehouse Ecclesiastical parish: London Town: Tower Hamlets County/Island: London Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: Stepney Sub-registration district: Limehouse ED, institution, or vessel: 12 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 73 Household Members: Name Age Hilda Moss 2 8 months Jane Moss 32 John Moss 34 Walter Moss 6 June x