Genealogy Chat

I found the data for Jane, Rachel and Humphrey as well. It appears Humphrey was born the same year as James and Jane married. It raises the possibility that Humphrey and my Elijah could have been twins. It is noted that, according to James' likely baptism, his father was also named Humphrey:

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Birth, Marriage, & Death
Name: James Humphris
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 26 May 1799
Baptism Place: Wombridge, Shropshire, England
Father: Humphry Humphris
Mother: Jane
FHL Film Number: 510685

I found these other possible children of James and Jane as well:

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Birth, Marriage, & Death
Name: Rebecca Humphreys
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 6 Aug 1827
Baptism Place: Tipton,Stafford,England
Father: James Humphreys
Mother: Jane
FHL Film Number: 435871, 435872

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Birth, Marriage, & Death
Name: Isaiah Humphries
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 18 Oct 1835
Baptism Place: Coseley IN Sedgley,Stafford,England
Father: James Humphries
Mother: Jane
FHL Film Number: 426530

I didn't find any baptismal information for the mother Jane, but I found two sets of parents who married at Saint Alkmund, Shrewsbury, Shropshire during the last decade or so of the 1700s. One was Joseph Wittall who married Elizabeth Jones in 1797 and the other was John Whittle who married Frances Jones in 1796. There was also a Timothy Whittal who married Ann Llewellin at Saint Julian in Shrewsbury and a Robert Whittall who married Margaret Roberts at Saint Chad, Shrewsbury in 1802. My family members have DNA connections on the right ancestral line to descendants of people with the surname Jones from Shropshire, with some from the Shrewsbury area being among the highest Jones matches from Shropshire. That begs the question which couple might be Jane's parents (if either). The fact she named a son Joseph with no John may be a clue. Anyway, I am going to call it a day on my updates as it is getting very speculative. Thanks to all for your interest, information and advice. It's been a big help.

It happens!. You can easily delete the duplicates…………. ;-) ;-)

Sorry everyone for the repeated info. The system gave me an error last night so I re-wrote the message this morning. I have no idea how an attempted post that results in an error shows up 3 times but I do apologize just the same.

Baptism of "Ledidiah"/Jedidiah/ Zebediah ??


EDIT:
NO, this is a different child, who died in infancy. Ledidiah must be Kezia, listed wrongly.


Birth:

HUMPHRIES, EZEKIAH mmn WOTTALL
GRO Reference: 1843 J Quarter in DUDLEY UNION Volume 18 Page 309

Hezakiah Humphreys
in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name Hezakiah Humphreys
Gender Male
Baptism Date 18 Jun 1843
Baptism Place Christ Church, Coseley, Stafford, England
Father James Humphreys
Mother Jane
FHL Film Number 1470590
Reference ID 327


Death :

HUMPHRIES, HEZEKIAH 1
GRO Reference: 1844 S Quarter in DUDLEY UNION Volume 18 Page 225

Daughter Jane's baptism:

Jane Humphreys
in the Staffordshire, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1900
Name Jane Humphreys
Baptism Date 6 Sep 1829
Baptism Place Tipton, St Martin, Staffordshire, England
Religion Anglican
Father James Humphreys
Mother Jane Humphreys
Page number 423


This child died:

Rachael Humphreys
in the Staffordshire, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1900
Name Rachael Humphreys
Baptism Date 30 Oct 1825
Baptism Place Tipton, St Martin, Staffordshire, England
Religion Anglican
Father James Humphreys
Mother Jane Humphreys
Page number 116

Rachel Humphriss
in the Staffordshire, England, Church of England Deaths and Burials, 1813-1900
Name Rachel Humphriss
Death Age 3
Birth Date 1826
Death Date 1829
Burial Date 2 Sep 1829
Burial Place Tipton, St Martin, Staffordshire, England
Religion Anglican
Page number 95



And this one :

Humphrey Humphreys
in the Staffordshire, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1900
Name Humphrey Humphreys
Baptism Date 4 Aug 1826
Baptism Place Tipton, St Martin, Staffordshire, England
Religion Anglican
Father James Humphreys
Mother Jane Humphreys
Page number 169

Humphrey Humphreys
in the Staffordshire, England, Church of England Deaths and Burials, 1813-1900
Name Humphrey Humphreys
Death Age 1
Birth Date 1825
Death Date 1826
Burial Date 9 Aug 1826
Burial Place Tipton, St Martin, Staffordshire, England
Religion Anglican
Page number 3

In 1841 Elijah was specifically in Bilston, which is where two censuses say he was born.

James was in Sedgley, about 4 miles from Bilston.


James's daughter Mary's baptism:

Mary Humphreys
in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name Mary Humphreys
Gender Female
Birth Date 11 Apr 1841
Baptism Date 2 May 1841
Baptism Place Coseley IN Sedgley,Stafford,England
Father James Humphreys
Mother Jane
FHL Film Number 426530

I'll update everyone on what I have, starting with the 1841 census. At the time Elijah at age 15 was on his own in North Seisdon hundred. The closest recorded James was the James married to Jane Whittal. In the 1841 census, James was also in North Seisdon and their children on the census, aged under 1 year to 12 years old were named James, Jane, Joseph (abbreviation used), Casiah (Keziah) and Mary. In 1851, the children were Jane, James, Joseph, what appears to be Zedekieh and Mary. Keziah is missing but Zedekiah is shown as the same age. In 1861, James had died, and only Keziah and Mary were with her. In 1871 and 1881, it was only Jane and Keziah. The only one I found a baptism record for was Keziah:
County Staffordshire
Place Coseley
Church name Christ Church
Baptism date 14 Jul 1839
Person forename Keziah
Father forename James
Mother forename Jane
Father surname HUMPHRIES
Person abode Princes End (on maps shown as Princes End, Tipton)
Father occupation Miner

I found marriage records for James Jr. and Joseph:

James:
County Staffordshire
Place Sedgley
Church name All Saints
Marriage date 20 Mar 1854
Groom forename James
Groom surname HUMPHRIES
Groom occupation Miner
Groom abode Princes End
Groom father forename James
Groom father surname HUMPHRIES
Groom father occupation Miner

Joseph:
County Staffordshire
Place Sedgley
Church name All Saints
Marriage date 05 Oct 1856
Groom forename Joseph
Groom surname HUMPHRIES
Groom abode
Princes End
Groom father forename James
Groom father surname HUMPHRIES
Groom father occupation Miner

While Elijah's place of abode was Dudley at the time of his marriage, he may well have moved into Dudley for work as a Pudler

Checking DNA matches, my sister and I match a descendant of an Anne Whittal, born 1787 Worthen, Shropshire, England on our maternal side. My mom, my sister, a second cousin on that side and myself all have a significant number of matches with people whose ancestors surnames were spelled Whittle or Wittall from Staffordshire, Leicestershire and Lancashire.

None of this proves a connection; however, it does suggest a likely connection.

Sorry, missed that. Am struggling a bit it’s very odd hayfever eyes.

Names -
In 1871, 1881, and 1891 the family were in Scotland.


Elizah Humphries
in the 1891 Scotland Census
Name Elizah Humphries
Age 73
Estimated Birth Year abt 1818
Relationship Head
Gender Male
Where born Shaws, Bilston
Registration Number 644/11
Registration district Hutchesontown
Civil parish Glasgow Govan
County Lanarkshire
Address 203 Aitkenhead Rd
Occupation Puddler Retired
ED 105
Household schedule number 84
Line 19
Roll CSSCT1891_289
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Elizah Humphries 73 Head


Susannah died in the Tradeston district of Glasgow in 1886, and Elijah died in Cambuslang RD in 1895.

AG - I’ confused. Why would one need Scotland People credits to view an English Census. :-S

What leads you to believe that James Humphries and Jane Whittal were his parents?


James Humphries
in the Shropshire, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1901
Name James Humphries
Record Type Marriage
Marriage Date 13 Mar 1825
Marriage Place Wellington, All Saints, Shropshire, England
Residence Date 1825
Residence Place Wellington, All Saints
Religion Anglican
Spouse Jane Whittal
Page number 225
Reference Number P291/A/3/5


In 1829 they were in Tipton , Staffs, (and probably also in 1826 and 1827) and then from c1835 onwards they lived in Sedgley, Wolverhampton - at least going by censuses and children's baptisms..

I suspect " Shaws" is a mistranscription of "Staffs", probably due to poor handwriting on the original document.

The transcriber thought his name was Elizah, so the writing wasn't the best.

If you buy credits on Scotlands People, you can view the original census form, and judge for yourself.

I figured it out and between this site and Ancestry I think I may have identified the parents as James Humphries and Jane Whittal, as well as identified some potential siblings. There's just not enough detail to be sure. In the 1891 census Elijah said he was born in Shaws, Bilston. I know where Bilston is and the potential parents I am referring to lived in that general area but does anyone know what the Shaws part would refer to? The only place I saw on the map that has some potential is Shawbury, but it is in Shropshire, not Staffordshire. The only reason I noticed it is because it is near Shrewsbury, which is where Jane Whittal was born.

A Baptismal entry IS a record of a birth - it is just not a formal Birth Certificate.

Too early for a birth record.................baptism is the only hope, and that may require a visit to the County Records Office, as there are no obvious records on freereg, familysearch or FMP

Robert was called Robert at marriage (to Mary Barker in 1817) and at death (1833).

However, it would be nice (for the sake of my suggestion) to think he was called James within the family!
Or that the registrar made a mistake.
Or that Elijah had forgotten his father's name by 1846.

Who knows?!


Posting just in case:

Robert Humphrys
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538-1973
Name Robert Humphrys
Gender Male
Marital Status Single
Marriage Date 31 Aug 1817
Marriage Place St. Peter'S, Wolverhampton, Stafford, England
Spouse Mary Barker
FHL Film Number 1040899
Reference ID it 3 pg 183

Birth of son William:

HUMPHRIES, WILLIAM mmn BARKER
GRO Reference: 1838 D Quarter in THE WOLVERHAMPTON UNION Volume 17 Page 283



Robt Humpheris
in the England & Wales, Non-Conformist and Non-Parochial Registers, 1567-1936
Name Robt Humpheris
Death Age 35
Event Type Burial
Birth Date abt 1798
Death Date abt 1833
Burial Date 28 Apr 1833
Burial Place Bilston, Staffordshire, England
Denomination Wesleyan


Mary remarried:

Mary Humphries
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name Mary Humphries
Registration Year 1841 [1841]
Registration Quarter Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district West Bromwich
Inferred County Staffordshire
Volume 18
Page 560
Records on Page (Name)
Job Guy
Mary Humphries


Mary Guy
in the 1851 England Census
Name Mary Guy
Age 50
Estimated Birth Year abt 1801
Relation Wife
Spouse's Name Job Guy
Gender Female
Where born Willington, Shropshire, England
Civil parish Bilston
Ecclesiastical parish St Leonard
Town Bilston
County/Island Staffordshire
Country England
Registration district Wolverhampton
Sub-registration district Bilston
ED, institution, or vessel 2
Neighbors
Household schedule number 14
Piece 2021
Folio 671
Page number 6
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Job Guy 47 Head - stone miner
Mary Guy 50 Wife
Daniel Humphreys 20 Son-in-law [ie - stepson]
Ann Humphreys 23 Son Wife (Ambiguous)
Ruben Humphreys 21 [step]Son
Robert Humphreys 18 [step]Son
William Humphreys 14 [step]Son
Jabez Guy 6 Son
Martha Guy 15 Daughter
Ellen Aston 9 Servant
Thomas Bold 24 Lodger [future husband of Rosanna ]

Until the birth has been found one cannot guarantee that James is the father.

He could be one of those named by AG and James could be the name he was known by. It could be the classic made up name. Or he could have changed his name.

Just for interest, on the marriage certificate of one of OH direct ancestors the father of the groom was given the Christian name of the father and the surname of the stepfather.

Oh well. . . . . .

James Humphries, Miner, was named as Elijah's father on the marriage record......................

1851 and 1891 both say he was born in Bilston.
I suspect the 1871 claim of Oldbury is just careless ditto-ing by the enumerator.

Censuses give his YOB as anywhere between 1818 and 1826.


Looking at other Humphries baptisms(on FS) in Bilston around that time, there seem to be two sets of parents - Robert and Mary, and Edward and Phebe.

Robert and Mary had children with biblical names - Reuben 1830, Levi 1827, Daniel 1822, Sarah 1820.

Also (per 1841 census) they had Isaiah c1821, Simeon c1826, (and also younger children Robert, Rosanna and William, departing from the biblical theme).

Just a guess/suggestion - but maybe Elijah would fit into that family??


Mary Humphries
in the 1841 England Census
Name Mary Humphries
Age 40
Estimated Birth Year abt 1801
Gender Female
Where born Staffordshire, England
Civil parish Wolverhampton
Hundred North Seisdon
County/Island Staffordshire
Country England
Registration district Wolverhampton
Sub-registration district Bilston
Neighbors
Piece 1001
Book 8
Folio 18
Page number 29
Household Members (Name) Age
Mary Humphries 40
Isaiah Humphries 20
Daniel Humphries 17
Simeon Humphries 15
Levi Humphries 12
Reubin Humphries 10
Robert Humphries 8
Rosanna Humphries 5
William Humphries 3