Genealogy Chat

EDIT:
NO - FORGET THIS THEORY! I'll leave it for elimination purposes.
THIS GIRL MARRIED GEORGE SHREWSBURY IN 1910, and is a widow in 1911 Census.

Marriages Jun 1910 (>99%)
BOTTOMLEY Annie Hannah Greenwich 1d 1321
SHREWSBURY George Reive Greenwich 1d 1321

Sadly, George's death was registered in J/F/M 1911.
_____________

A suggestion -

BOTTOMLEY, ANNIE HANNAH mmn PILKINGTON
GRO Reference: 1882 D Quarter in SAINT OLAVE SOUTHWARK Volume 01D Page 248

Her mother's name was Frances - maybe she took her mother's name ???

This girl's father James is a shoemaker, not just a labourer.
BUT as this Annie was only approx 8 when her father died, perhaps she didn't know his exact occupation???
Frances's father was deceased by 1908

Annie Hannah's mother may have died in childbirth:

BOTTOMLEY, FRANCES ISABELLA 28
GRO Reference: 1882 D Quarter in SAINT OLAVE SOUTHWARK Volume 01D Page 168


Marriages Mar 1875 (>99%)
BOTTOMLEY James Samuel St. Saviour 1d 155
Pilkington Frances Isabella St. Saviour 1d 155


Annie Bottomley
in the 1891 England Census
Name Annie Bottomley
Gender Female
Age 8
Relationship Daughter
Birth Year 1883
Father
James S Bottomley
Birth Place Bermondsey, London, England
Civil parish Bermondsey
Ecclesiastical parish St Anne
Residence Place Bermondsey, London, England
Registration district St Olave Southwark
Sub registration district St James Bermondsey
ED, Institution or Vessel 25
Neighbors
Piece 378
Folio 107
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
James S Bottomley 40 Head, widowed, shoemaker
Chas S Bottomley 15 Son
Adelaide Bottomley 12 Daughter
Fanny Bottomley 10 Daughter
Annie Bottomley 8 Daughter


Annie Bottomely
in the 1901 England Census
Name Annie Bottomely
Age 18
Estimated Birth Year abt 1883
Relation to Head Niece
Gender Female
Birth Place London, England
Civil parish Deptford St Paul
Search Photos
View blank form
Ecclesiastical parish St Katharine Rotherhithe
County/Island London
Country England
Registration district Greenwich
Sub-registration district Deptford, North
ED, institution, or vessel 16
Neighbors
Piece 526
Folio 6
Page number 4
Household schedule number 18
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Alfred Driver 43 Head
Ann Driver 45 Wife [ nee Pilkington ]
Lily Driver 14 Daughter
Rose Driver 12 Daughter
Violet Driver 4 Daughter
Leonard Driver 2 Son
Annie Bottomely 18 Niece

In 1871 James is a leather cutter.


James Samuel Bottomley
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name James Samuel Bottomley
Age 40
Estimated Birth Year abt 1851
Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec
Death Registration Place St Olave Southwark, London, United Kingdom
Death Date Dec 1891
Inferred Death Place London, United Kingdom
Volume 1d
Page 163

Although the marriage cert give her father’s occupation as labourer am

Wondering if she was born abroad if her father was a serviceman at one time even though her birth is consistently stated as Poplar

Hello and Thank you all
my nan is elizabeth Grace
mum frances bottomley and dad james Jaques

Purely for elimination, as variations may have to be considered
NOT this girl - her second forename was Alice

Bottan (Bottom)
Frances A
Born c 1884
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Bromley, Poplar, London & Middlesex, England

Jaques and Bottomley were married by Licence issued 8th June - not after Banns

This is the grandmother's marriage, linked to info in Kathy's post on Military Chat

Marriages Jun 1940 (>99%)
Jaques Grace E Payne Poplar 1c 1033
Payne Francis C Jaques Poplar 1c 1033

Birth with forenames reversed
Births Jun 1919 (>99%)
Jaques Elizabeth G Bottomley Poplar 1c 517

Not that it helps in any way to track Frances Bottomley, who seems to have 'materialised' in 1908 when she married Jaques :-S :-S

Oops. Pat was the OP on the next thread.

No-one named Bottomley at the woman's stated address in 1891 or 1901

Scotlands People already checked - no James Jaques (or other spelling) around 1841.

No Frances Bottomley, either, 1880-1890.

Who is ‘Pat’?

No, Shirley, it transpires that the OP knows nothing about Frances - not surprising, as nothing can be found for her prior to the marriage

Maybe Pat has already done that by following the advice given by Argyllgran yesterday.

I hope Pat has looked into various spellings of the surnames. I suspect that there are quite a few.

As the family seem to come from Carlisle (1841 birth) it might be worth checking Scotlands Peopke for births over the border.

I took it that the poster knows the siblings of Frances bottomley

That’s how it read to me which is why I posted let’s have names so we can find them and identify the mums name :-(

I suspect that the question about the siblings arises from confusion about the generation being sought, due to the rather unclear OP

Mentioning siblings muddied the waters……….

I don't see how the poster's grandmother's siblings' names are relevant to finding their parents' births and ancestry. [We've found James anyway.]
Am I missing something obvious?!


JAQUES, MILLICENT LOUISA mmn BOTTOMLEY
GRO Reference: 1914 M Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 932

JAQUES, ELIZABETH GRACE mmn BOTTOMLEY
GRO Reference: 1919 J Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 517

JAQUES, RICHARD SIDNEY mmn BOTTOMS
GRO Reference: 1908 D Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 543


JAQUES, HENRY JAMES mmn BOTTOMLEY
GRO Reference: 1911 M Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 518

JAQUES, FREDERICK LESLIE mmn BOTTOMLEY
GRO Reference: 1916 S Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 752

JAQUES, MAUD KATHLEEN mn BOTTOMLEY
GRO Reference: 1922 S Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 672

JAQUES, EDWARD JOHN mmn BOTTOMLEY
GRO Reference: 1925 J Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 620

Might be getting too far ahead, but whilst looking around -

The 1891 census says that James Jaques was born c 1839 in Cumberland and his marriage record says his Father was Anthony Jaques a Blacksmith.

This Anthony would fit ie name and occupation - but not as Father unless wife Margaret had a very late child so ? Grandfather and one of his daughters is James' Mother

not finding James 1841 /1851/1861/1871.
The 1881 census says he was born in America, did he go there as an infant and think that was where he was born?

----------------------------------

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Monkwray, Whitehaven, Cumberland, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Anthony Jaques Head Married Male 57 1794 Blacksmith Westmorland, England
Margaret Jaques Wife Married Female 63 1788 Blacksmiths wife Westmorland, England

----------------------
1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Monkwray P B, St Bee, Whitehaven, Cumberland, England

First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
Anthony Jaques Male 45 1796 - Blacksmith
Margaret Jaques Female 50 1791 -
Margaret Jaques Female 15 1826 -
Anthony Jaques Male 14 1827 Cumberland, England
Christopher Jaques Male 11 1830 Cumberland, England

------------------
Possibly this marriage for Anthony and Margaret

First name(s) Anthony
Country England
Last name Jacques
Spouse's first name(s) Margaret
Sex Male
Spouse's last name Mallinson
Marriage year 1813
Spouse's marital status Single
Marriage date 13 Dec 1813
Record set Cumberland Marriages
Marital status Single
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Place Penrith (St Andrew from another record on Family Search)
Subcategory Parish Marriages
County Cumberland
Collections from Great Britain, England
Index © IRI. Used by permission of FamilySearch Intl

Deaths Dec 1960 (>99%)
JAQUES Frances A 77 Poplar 5d 272

At the moment, we don't even know the name of the poster's grandmother :-S :-S

She was, presumably, a child of Jaques/Bottomley marriage

You keep saying you have her brothers but don’t give their names

They may be able to be identified on the gro and on census

????????
Name Henrietta Elizabeth Mason
Registration Year 1870
[1870]
Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun
Registration district Greenwich
Inferred County London
Volume 1d
Page 1015
Records on Page (Name)
John Discow
Henrietta Elizabeth Mason


First name(s) Henrietta Elizabeth
Father's last name Mason
Last name Mason
Spouse's first name(s) John
Name note -
Spouse's last name Denon
Marriage year 1870
Spouse's age -
Marriage date 26 Apr 1870
Spouse's father's first name(s) William
Residence Hatcham, Surrey, England
Spouse's father's last name Denon
Marriage place Hatcham
Record set England Marriages 1538-1973
County Surrey
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Country England
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Father's first name(s) John
Collections from England, Great Britain

Bride's father: John Mason


Obviously an unclear original which resulted in various interpretations of the groom's surname