Genealogy Chat

im stuck on my nans parents parents
any tips or help ? All from Poplar London

James sidney Jaques 1883-1933
Francia a Bottomley 1884 1960

I have all her siblings but just cannot get to her parents parents

Look their births up on the GRO website. That will give you their mothers' maiden surnames. You have to register, but it's free to search:
https://www.gro.gov.uk

Having found the mothers' names, then search for marriages on FreeBMD:
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Birth:
JAQUES, JAMES SIDNEY mmn MASON
GRO Reference: 1882 J Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 718

James Sidney Jaques
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1938
Name James Sidney Jaques
Gender Male
Marriage Age 26
Record Type Marriage
Birth Date abt 1882
Marriage Date 10 Jun 1908
Marriage Place All Saints, Poplar: East India Dock Road, Tower Hamlets, England
Father James Sidney Jaques, boiler maker
Spouse Frances Ann Bottomley
Register Type Parish Register

Frances's father was James Bottomley, deceased, labourer.



I'm not immediately seeing a marriage for James's father James to a Mason.

Nor the birth of his father.

I'm also not seeing Frances's birth.


Frances Ann Jaques
in the 1911 England Census
Name Frances Ann Jaques
Age in 1911 27
Estimated Birth Year abt 1884
Relation to Head Wife
Gender Female
Birth Place Poplar
Civil parish Poplar
County/Island London
Country England
Street Address 168 Chrisp Street, Poplar, Bromley E
Marital Status Married
Years Married 3
Estimated Marriage Year 1908
Registration District Number 22
Sub-registration district Bromley
ED, institution, or vessel 23
Piece 1700
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
James Sidney Jaques 28 Head - Poplar, stoker
Frances Ann Jaques 27 Wife
Richard Sidney Jaques 2 Son
Henry James Jaques 0 Son



JAQUES, RICHARD SIDNEY mmn BOTTOMS
GRO Reference: 1908 D Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 543


JAQUES, HENRY JAMES mmn BOTTOMLEY
GRO Reference: 1911 M Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 518

1921 census

1921 Census Of England & Wales
158, Chrisp Street, Poplar Borough, London & Middlesex, England

Household members (7 people)

First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Sex Birth year Age in years Birth place Occupation Employer
James Sydney Jaques Head Male 1882 39 Poplar, London, England Ships Donkey Man, Union Castle Shiprepairing Dept Union Castle Line Ship Repairing Dept
Frances Ann Jaques Wife Female 1884 37 Poplar, Middlesex, England House Duties -
Richard Sydney Jaques Son Male 1908 12 Poplar, Middlesex, England - -
Henry James Jaques Son Male 1911 10 Poplar, Middlesex, England - -
Millicent Louisa Jaques Daughter Female 1914 7 Poplar, Middlesex, England - -
Frederick Edward Jaques Son Male 1916 5 Poplar, Middlesex, England - -
Elizabeth Grace Jaques Daughter Female 1919 2 Poplar, Middlesex, England - -

1939 Register
168 Chrisp Street, Poplar, Tower Hamlets, Poplar, London, England

Household members (7 people)

First name(s) Last name(s) Birth date Sex Occupation widow status Schedule Schedule sub number
Frances A Jaques 07 Dec 1883 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 228 1
Richard S Jaques 26 Oct 1908 Male Dry Dock Labourer Single 228 2
Harry J Jaques 08 Feb 1911 Male B S Automatic Machine Setter Single 228 3
Frederick L Jaques 25 May 1916 Male Builder's Labourer Single 228 4
Grace E (Elizabeth G) Payne (Jaques) 08 Mar 1919 Female Cardboard Box Maker Single 228 5
Kathleen M Jacques 01 Jul 1922 Female Cigaretter Packer Single 228 6
Edward J Jacques 29 Mar 1925 Male Solicitor Outdoor Messenger Single 228 7

If you have her siblings then you would have her mmn ?

You say you have ‘all her siblings’. What were their names and birth years?

yes i have all my nans brothers but cannot get further than her father

One of the witnesses to the 1908 marriage was an Elsie Grace Jaques - may be a 'handle' on which to base a search

Elsie Grace Jaques was one of the witnesses to James & Frances's marriage:


Elsie Grace Jaques
in the 1911 England Census
Name Elsie Grace Jaques
Age in 1911 30
Estimated Birth Year abt 1881
Relation to Head Daughter
Gender Female
Birth Place Poplar
Civil parish Poplar
County/Island London
Country England
Street Address 38 Kerbey St, Poplar E
Marital Status Single
Occupation Tailoress
Registration District Number 22
Sub-registration district Poplar
ED, institution, or vessel 02
Piece 1718
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
James Jaques 75 Head [married 31 years ] - Cumberland, boilermaker
Elizabeth Jaques 59 Wife
Elsie Grace Jaques 30 Daughter


Jarold Myer [James Jaques ]
in the 1891 England Census
Name Jarold Myer [James Jaques ]
Gender Male
Age 9
Relationship Son
Birth Year 1882
Father
James Jaques
Mother
Elena [Eliz'th ] Jaques
Birth Place Poplar, London, England
Civil parish Poplar
Ecclesiastical parish All Saints
Residence Place Bromley, Poplar, London, England
Registration district Poplar
Sub registration district Poplar
ED, Institution or Vessel 3
Neighbors
Piece 329
Folio 59
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
James Jaques 50 Head - Cumberland, Carlisle, boilermaker
Elena [Eliz'th ] Jaques 40 Wife - St George's, London
Eldie [Elsie ] Jaques 13 Daughter
Jarold Myer [ James Jaques ] 9 Son
Fred E Myer [Jaques] 3 Son



James Jaques
in the 1881 England Census
Name James Jaques
Age 40
Estimated Birth Year abt 1841
Relationship to Head Head
Spouse Elizabeth Jaques
Gender Male
Where born Massuchusetts BS, America
Civil parish Poplar
County/Island London
Country England
Street Address 2 Quixley St
Marital Status Married
Occupation Boilermaker
Registration district Poplar
ED, institution, or vessel 26
Neighbors
Piece 509
Folio 131
Page number 28
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
James Jaques 40 Head - Massachusetts, USA (BS), boilermaker
Elizabeth Jaques 30 Wife - Southwark
Elsie Jaques Daughter - 7 months



James Jaques
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1938
Name James Jaques
Gender Male
Marriage Age 40
Record Type Marriage
Birth Date abt 1839
Marriage Date 5 Oct 1879
Marriage Place Saint Thomas, Stepney: Arbour Square, Tower Hamlets, England
Father
Anthony Jaques, blacksmith
Spouse
Henrietta Elizabeth Dixon, widow [Father: John Mason, shoemaker ]
Register Type Parish Register

So far, I'm not seeing Elizabeth's first marriage.

The address for James when he married

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
38, Kerbey Street, Poplar, London & Middlesex, England

James Jaques Head Married Male 50 1841 Boiler maker Carlisle, Cumberland, England
Elizn Jaques Wife Married Female 40 1851 - London, Middlesex, England
Elsie Jaques Daughter - Female 10 1881 Scholar London, Middlesex, England
James Jaques Son - Male 9 1882 Scholar London, Middlesex, England
Fred E Jaques Son - Male 3 1888 - London, Middlesex, England

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
2, Quixley Street, Poplar, London & Middlesex, England
James Jaques Head Married Male 40 1841 Boilermaker United States
Elizabeth Jaques Wife Married Female 30 1851 - Surrey, England
Elsie Jaques Daughter Single Female 0 1881 - Poplar, Middlesex, England

????????
Name Henrietta Elizabeth Mason
Registration Year 1870
[1870]
Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun
Registration district Greenwich
Inferred County London
Volume 1d
Page 1015
Records on Page (Name)
John Discow
Henrietta Elizabeth Mason


First name(s) Henrietta Elizabeth
Father's last name Mason
Last name Mason
Spouse's first name(s) John
Name note -
Spouse's last name Denon
Marriage year 1870
Spouse's age -
Marriage date 26 Apr 1870
Spouse's father's first name(s) William
Residence Hatcham, Surrey, England
Spouse's father's last name Denon
Marriage place Hatcham
Record set England Marriages 1538-1973
County Surrey
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Country England
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Father's first name(s) John
Collections from England, Great Britain

Bride's father: John Mason


Obviously an unclear original which resulted in various interpretations of the groom's surname

You keep saying you have her brothers but don’t give their names

They may be able to be identified on the gro and on census

At the moment, we don't even know the name of the poster's grandmother :-S :-S

She was, presumably, a child of Jaques/Bottomley marriage

Deaths Dec 1960 (>99%)
JAQUES Frances A 77 Poplar 5d 272

Might be getting too far ahead, but whilst looking around -

The 1891 census says that James Jaques was born c 1839 in Cumberland and his marriage record says his Father was Anthony Jaques a Blacksmith.

This Anthony would fit ie name and occupation - but not as Father unless wife Margaret had a very late child so ? Grandfather and one of his daughters is James' Mother

not finding James 1841 /1851/1861/1871.
The 1881 census says he was born in America, did he go there as an infant and think that was where he was born?

----------------------------------

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Monkwray, Whitehaven, Cumberland, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Anthony Jaques Head Married Male 57 1794 Blacksmith Westmorland, England
Margaret Jaques Wife Married Female 63 1788 Blacksmiths wife Westmorland, England

----------------------
1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Monkwray P B, St Bee, Whitehaven, Cumberland, England

First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
Anthony Jaques Male 45 1796 - Blacksmith
Margaret Jaques Female 50 1791 -
Margaret Jaques Female 15 1826 -
Anthony Jaques Male 14 1827 Cumberland, England
Christopher Jaques Male 11 1830 Cumberland, England

------------------
Possibly this marriage for Anthony and Margaret

First name(s) Anthony
Country England
Last name Jacques
Spouse's first name(s) Margaret
Sex Male
Spouse's last name Mallinson
Marriage year 1813
Spouse's marital status Single
Marriage date 13 Dec 1813
Record set Cumberland Marriages
Marital status Single
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Place Penrith (St Andrew from another record on Family Search)
Subcategory Parish Marriages
County Cumberland
Collections from Great Britain, England
Index © IRI. Used by permission of FamilySearch Intl

I don't see how the poster's grandmother's siblings' names are relevant to finding their parents' births and ancestry. [We've found James anyway.]
Am I missing something obvious?!


JAQUES, MILLICENT LOUISA mmn BOTTOMLEY
GRO Reference: 1914 M Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 932

JAQUES, ELIZABETH GRACE mmn BOTTOMLEY
GRO Reference: 1919 J Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 517

JAQUES, RICHARD SIDNEY mmn BOTTOMS
GRO Reference: 1908 D Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 543


JAQUES, HENRY JAMES mmn BOTTOMLEY
GRO Reference: 1911 M Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 518

JAQUES, FREDERICK LESLIE mmn BOTTOMLEY
GRO Reference: 1916 S Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 752

JAQUES, MAUD KATHLEEN mn BOTTOMLEY
GRO Reference: 1922 S Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 672

JAQUES, EDWARD JOHN mmn BOTTOMLEY
GRO Reference: 1925 J Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 620

I suspect that the question about the siblings arises from confusion about the generation being sought, due to the rather unclear OP

Mentioning siblings muddied the waters……….