Genealogy Chat

Thanks for all that. I don't have time at the moment to look further, I have been out all day building a leaky dam, (don't ask) and I am worn out. Old fool that I am, I shouldn't be doing this sort of thing at my age!

Name Eleanor May Spencer
Gender Female
Death Age 21
Record Type Burial
Birth Year 1892
Burial Date 16 Jun 1913
Burial Place Otford, Kent

1921 Census Of England & Wales
Kennel Cottage, Otford, Kent, England
Henry Spencer Head Male 1862 58 Buckland, Hertfordshire, England Feeder Of Hounds W M Brydone M F H
Thyrza Spencer Wife Female 1865 55 Braughing, Hertfordshire, England - -

Ah, but . . . .

Birth of a daughter:

FRIEDRICH, MARGARET MURIEL BERTHA mmn SPENCER
GRO Reference: 1915 D Quarter in HAMPSTEAD Volume 01A Page 895


Margaret Muriel Bertha Friedrich
in the London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1923
Name Margaret Muriel Bertha Friedrich
Baptism Age 0
Record Type Baptism
Birth Date 13 Oct 1915
Baptism Date 21 Nov 1915
Baptism Place Emmanuel, Hampstead, Camden, England
Father Frederick Peter Friedrich [Heinrich Peter Friedrich on image]
Mother Florence Mary Friedrich

Heinrich's occupation: insurance clerk
Address 40 Cavendish Mansions



Sadly -

Margaret M B Friedrich
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name Margaret M B Friedrich
Death Age 1
Birth Date abt 1916
Registration Date Apr 1917 [May 1917] [Jun 1917]
Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun
Registration district Hampstead
Inferred County London
Volume 1a
Page 739


Margaret Muriel Bertha Friedrich
in the Web: UK, Burial and Cremation Index, 1576-2014
Name Margaret Muriel Bertha Friedrich
Register Type Burial
Death Date abt 1917
Burial or Cremation Date 21 Apr 1917
Burial or Cremation Place Camden, London, England

Birth of Charles's half-sister Florence:

LEE, FLORENCE MARY -
GRO Reference: 1884 S Quarter in BISHOP STORTFORD Volume 03A Page 432


In 1891 she's on the census posted above.

1901
(No Florence Spencer was born in Herts 1882-87. Buntingford is approx 5 miles from Braughing, and Buntingford is also stated as Charles's birthplace in 1901 census.)

Florence Spencer
in the 1901 England Census
Name Florence Spencer
Age 16
Estimated Birth Year abt 1885
Relation to Head Servant
Gender Female
Birth Place Banlingford, Hertfordshire, England [Buntingford on image ]
Civil parish Hampstead
Search Photos
View blank form
Ecclesiastical parish St John
County/Island London
Country England
Registration district Hampstead
Sub-registration district Hampstead
ED, institution, or vessel 05
Neighbors
Piece 120
Folio 121
Page number 34
Household schedule number 209
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Jessieanne G Robertsen 58 Head
Campbell Robertsen 53 Brother
Barbara S Robertsen 59 Son-in-law
Annie Searle 27 Servant
Marie Robel 23 Servant
Hollie H Sammon 16 Servant
Mayone Minshall 9 Boarder
Ellie Thomson 14 Boarder
Dorothy Thomson 11 Boarder
Ellen Ainger 25 Servant


Florence Mary Spencer
in the 1911 England Census
Name Florence Mary Spencer
Age in 1911 25
Estimated Birth Year abt 1886
Relation to Head Assistant Housekeeper (Assistant)
Gender Female
Birth Place HERTFORDSHIRE, Hertford, England [Braughing on image ]
Civil parish Hampstead
County/Island London
Country England
Street Address 94 Fellows Road, London, Hampstead N W
Marital Status Single
Registration District Number 8
Sub-registration district Hampstead
ED, institution, or vessel 25
Piece 615
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Constance Sandeville 34 Head
William Lohner 30 Visitor
Gertrud Tancmann 21 Visitor
Henry Friedrich 24 Visitor , bank clerk [and future husband ] <<<<<<
Albert Ed Whildon 49 Visitor
Florence Mary Spencer 25 Assistant Housekeeper (Assistant)
Frances Mydia Colclough 2 Niece
Florence Beatrice Rochell 18 Servant
Elizabeth Jerry 28 Servant
Margaret Water 24 Servant


Marriages Jun 1914 (99%)
FRIEDRICH Peter H Spencer Sevenoaks 2a 1704
Spencer Florence M Friedrich Sevenoaks 2a 1704


Florence Mary Spencer
in the Kent, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages, and Burials, 1538-1914
Name Florence Mary Spencer
Gender Female
Marriage Age 28
Record Type Marriage
Birth Year abt 1886
Marriage Date 29 May 1914
Marriage Place Otford, Kent, England
Father Henry Spencer
Spouse Peter Heinrich Friedrich


I don't see them after that.
Perhaps they changed their name, in view of WW1.

Or maybe emigrated.

Household members (6 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Henry Spencer Head
Married Male 29 1862 Kennel man Buckland, Hertfordshire, England
Thirza Spencer Wife
Married Female 25 1866 - Braughing, Hertfordshire, England
Florence M Spencer Daughter
Single Female 6 1885 Scholar Braughing, Hertfordshire, England
Charles H Spencer Son
- Male 3 1888 - Braughing, Hertfordshire, England
Amy Spencer Daughter
- Female 2 1889 - Braughing, Hertfordshire, England
Alexander H Spencer Son
- Male 0 1891 - Braughing, Hertfordshire, England


LEE, FLORENCE MARY -
GRO Reference: 1884 S Quarter in BISHOP STORTFORD Volume 03A Page 432

So far, I don't see any definite marriage or death for Charles - but there are lots of Charles Spencers..

He's on a number of trees on Ancestry, and none of them have marriage or death info for him, either.

Charles Spencer
in the UK, British Army World War I Service Records, 1914-1920
Name Charles Spencer
Gender Male
Enlistment Age 19
Birth Place Braughin, Hertford
Military Date 1908
Relationship to Soldier Self (Head)
Regimental Number T8484
Regiment Name Lincolnshire Regiment
Number of Images 19
Form Title Short Service Attestation
Family Members (Name) Relation to Soldier
Charles Spencer Self (Head)

Scar under left jaw.
Small scar left thumb
5ft 3.5 ins; 139 lbs; full chest expansion 37 ".
Fair hair, blue eyes, light brown hair.
Church of England.

Occupation: baker.
Not married.

Examined at Lincoln, 18 April 1908.
Aldershot, [?]/9/1908.
H T Plassey [??]: 2/12/08-23/12/08
Poona: 24/12/08
Gibraltar: 13/1/1912 - 6/1/1914.
[East ?] Somali: 7/1/14 - 17/1/14
Bermuda: 18/1/14 - 13/9/14
Canada: 14/9/14

Vaccinated in infancy.
Revaccinated 12/5/08
Inoculated against Typhoid, in Poona 9/1/1909
24/9/10 - 4/10/10 - synovitis - 11 days in hospital - splint followed by massage.
18/9/12 - 18/12/12 - Gibraltar - gonnorrhoea.
26/?/14 [Bermuda] : Fit for field service.

9/6/1915; Admitted [to hospital] with acute [something].
16/6/1915: discharged to duty.
26/6/1915: Admitted influenza.
29/6/1915: transferred to Div Resv Stn
[Unreadable date]: rejoined from hospital.

16/9/15 - 23/9//15: Leave to England.
19/1/1918 - leave to UK
27/5/18 - leave to UK
7/11/18 - on list for Freidrichsfeld

Embarked 5th Nov 1918 - doesn't say where.

8/2/1918: taken on strength of Depot, Lincs Regt.
12/2/1918: posted 4th Res Btn, at Skegness.
Discharged - date unreadable.

Committed no offences while in service.

SPENCER, CHARLES HENRY mmn LEE
GRO Reference: 1887 J Quarter in BISHOP STORTFORD Volume 03A Page 468


Charles Henry Spencer
in the England & Wales, Christening Index, 1530-1980
Name Charles Henry Spencer
Gender Male
Christening Date 31 Jul 1887
Christening Place Braughin, Hertfordshire, England
Father Henry Spencer
Mother Thyrza Spencer



Henry & Thyrza's marriage:

Marriages Sep 1886 (>99%)
Lee Thyrza B. Stortford 3a 536
SPENCER Henry B. Stortford 3a 536



Charles H Spencer
in the 1891 England Census
Name Charles H Spencer
Gender Male
Age 3
Relationship Son
Birth Year 1888
Father Henry Spencer
Mother Thurza Spencer
Birth Place Braughing, Hertfordshire, England
Civil parish Braughing
Ecclesiastical parish Braughing
Residence Place Braughing, Braughing, Hertfordshire, England
Registration district Bishop Stortford
Sub registration district Braughing
ED, Institution or Vessel 2
Neighbors
Piece 1099
Folio 21
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Henry Spencer 29 Head
Thurza Spencer 25 Wife
Florence M Spencer 6 Daughter
Charles H Spencer 3 Son
Anny Spencer 2 Daughter [Amy ]
Alexander H Spencer 11/12 Son


Charley Spencer
in the 1901 England Census
Name Charley Spencer
Age 13
Estimated Birth Year abt 1888
Relation to Head Son
Gender Male
Mother Thyrza Spencer
Birth Place Buntingford, Hertfordshire, England
Civil parish Layston
Ecclesiastical parish Layston
Town Buntingford
County/Island Hertfordshire
Country England
Registration district Royston
Sub-registration district Buntingford
ED, institution, or vessel 6
Piece 1291
Folio 79
Page number 22
Household schedule number 142
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Thyrza Spencer 35 Wife
Charley Spencer 13 Son - Ordinary Agricultural Salesman
Amy Spencer 12 Daughter
Herbert Spencer 10 Son
Eleanor Spencer 9 Daughter
Sidney Spencer 7 Son
Grace Spencer 4 Daughter
Lily Spencer 2 Daughter

Address in 1901: Meeting Alley.
Henry, the father, isn't listed with them in 1901.



Charles Spencer
in the 1911 England Census
Name Charles Spencer
Age in 1911 22
Estimated Birth Year abt 1889
Birth Place Brauething, Herts
County/Island Military
Country England
Rank Private
Military Unit 1st Lincolnshire Regt
Registration District Number 641
ED, institution, or vessel Ceylon and India
Piece 34997

[Listed with many other soldiers ]

1921 is NOT on Ancestry!!!!!!!!

Good luck with your research

I will probably re-join Ancestry at the end of the month and get access to the 1921 census.

Without digging out my records I was working from the census return. We all make mistakes.

Correction. I have just dug out my archives. Blimey, so many names. Herbert Alexander had four children, and it is his grandson who we have met up with a couple of times. Sydney John had three children, and I have been in contact with some of them. It is ten year since I decided to have a break from the search, and it is the release of the 1921 census that has got me interested again.
Two more siblings of Amy I have to research now are the eldest two, Florence, b 1885 and Charles b 1887. Both in Braughing. Hertfordshire.

SPENCER, ELEANOR MAY 21
GRO Reference: 1913 J Quarter in SEVENOAKS Volume 02A Page 895

If you knew she was baptised in 1891, why did you give her birth year as 1892?

So far, Sydney John Spencer seems to be the only sibling of Amy to have had children. I have been in contact with two of his grandchildren and met up with one of them. But they knew nothing of Amy.

She was baptised in Nov 1891. I will check the death, but it is not a priority at the moment. She won't go on my tree until I am 100% sure. Her parents and youngest sisters moved to the Sevenoaks area prior to the 1911 census.

Are you going to check the GRO?

I tried looking for a death in all areas covering several years. Too many to narrow it down. But yes, she must be the one, her parents and sisters moved to the Sevenoaks area. So, no offspring to find there then.

First point…she was born in 1891

Second…….have you investigated and ruled out the death in 1913 registered in Sevenoaks district? You need to look at the GRO index to determine the second forename………….

Any comments regarding info already provided?

Where have you looked for info about Eleanor?

Here is another line I need to follow. (Why is this font so small?) The sister of Amy,
Eleanor May Spencer, b, 1892. I can find nothing after the 1911 census as a kitchen maid in the household of Sir Arthur Bigge, Lord Horsley, at St James's Palace, St Martin in the Fields, London. Lord Horsley was the Private Secretary to the Duke of Cornwall and Kent.