Genealogy Chat

Quite possible!!

Perhaps they didn't marry.

Thank you all for your research and results.

That record for Charles, Alfred John looks promising, Argyllgran. I've no idea how you got there :-) but Childs could well sound like Charles.

I've found a birth record for George Childs, this time with an e:

CHILDE, GEORGE EDMUND ROWLAND
GRO Reference: 1855 D Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 290

which led me to Henry Childs & Sarah Rowland and their family. Which also has missing / not immediately findable records!! But I'm still working on that.

greyghost: That 1891 is certainly them, thank you. I have no idea why I didn't find it (I said before I hadn't tried very hard ;-)) but as soon as I searched FMP (knowing it was there), there was the record.

I hadn't looked at the Miller ancestors yet, Argyllgran, so all those records you found will be very useful, thank you again.

I'm still having difficulties with the marriage Childs / Childe / ... with Miller. Maybe I need to consider the less common (!) spellings of Child. Even a search for Jane Miller about the right date doesn't come up with anything likely.

Birth of George & Jane's son Alfred John - maybe Childs sounded like Charles to the registrar ??

CHARLES, ALFRED JOHN mmn MILLER
GRO Reference: 1889 J Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 366


Perhaps Ercombe as Jane Sarah's mother's name is just another mistake ???

Thomas Miller
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Thomas Miller
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: 1831
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane Miller
Gender: Male
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: Lambeth St Mary
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Lambeth Church First
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 150
Piece: 352
Folio: 90
Page number: 28
Household Members Age Relationship
Thomas Miller 30 Head
Jane Miller 29 Wife
Thomas Miller 11 Son
William Miller 4 Son
Joseph Miller 2 Son


Children's births in previous post.


Thos Meller
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Thos Meller
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane Meller
Gender: Male
Where Born: Lambeth, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: Lambeth St Mary
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration District: Lambeth
Sub-registration District: Lambeth Church Second
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 104
Piece: 1572
Folio: 544
Page Number: 32
Household Members:
Name Age
Thos Meller 26
Jane Meller 19
Thos Meller 1
Mary Ann Meller 1

I don't see Mary Ann's birth.

Her death:

MILLER, MARY ANN 2
GRO Reference: 1852 D Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 218


However, all this doesn't solve Keith's problem re the Childs births and parents' marriage.

That 1891 looks good.
Son Alfred John possibly named after her brother who was born and died in 1861 - see below.



Possibly Jane's birth?? (if her name was Miller ! ) 1901 census says she was born in Lambeth.

MILLER, JANE mmn ROBINS
GRO Reference: 1855 J Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 269

Parents:

Marriages Sep 1852 (>99%)
MILLER Thomas Lambeth 1d 635
ROBINS Jane Lambeth 1d 635


??
Jane Miller
in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Jane Miller
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 30 Apr 1856
Baptism Place: St Mary's, Lambeth, Surrey, England
Father: Thomas Miller
Mother: Jane


??
Jane Miller
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Jane Miller
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: 1856
Gender: Female
Where born: Lambeth
Civil parish: Lambeth
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Norwood
ED, institution, or vessel: Lambeth Workhouse Industrial School
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 1
Piece: 367
Folio: 174
Page number: 11
FHL Film Number: 1041632

She's listed with a Caroline Miller, age 3 - but apparently not related:

MILLER, CAROLINE mmn BUSHELL
GRO Reference: 1852 M Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 251

Jane does appear to have brothers - Thomas born before parents' marriage??:

MILLER, THOMAS mmn ROBINS
GRO Reference: 1849 D Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 04 Page 282

MILLER, WILLIAM mmn ROBINS
GRO Reference: 1853 J Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 282

MILLER, JOSEPH mmn ROBINS
GRO Reference: 1859 J Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 298

MILLER, WILLIAM mmn ROBINS
GRO Reference: 1857 J Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 285

MILLER, ALFRED JOHN mmn ROBINS [ died 1861 Lambeth ]
GRO Reference: 1861 S Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 289

MILLER, GEORGE mmn ROBINS
GRO Reference: 1862 S Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 290


And a sister:

MILLER, ANN mmn ROBINS
GRO Reference: 1872 D Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 455


Ancestry suggests that's this family:

Thomas Miller
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Thomas Miller
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: 1831
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Barnabas
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Kennington First
ED, institution, or vessel: 43
Household schedule number: 48
Piece: 675
Folio: 48
Page number: 8
Household Members Age Relationship
Thomas Miller 40 Head
Jane R Miller 40 Wife
William Miller 14 Son
George Miller 8 Son
Jane Miller 6 Daughter [ this is Sarah Jane - can't find birth - see marriage below]
Eliza Miller 4 Daughter
Joseph Miller 6/12 Daughter [son ]


Thomas Miller
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Thomas Miller
Age: 54
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Jane Miller
Gender: Male
Where Born: Lambeth, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Lambeth
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 20 Portland Cotts
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: General Dealer
Registration District: Lambeth
Sub registration district: Kennington First
ED, institution, or vessel: 35
Neighbors:
Piece: 606
Folio: 81
Page Number: 56
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Miller 54
Jane Miller 50
George Miller 18
Jane Miller 16
Eliza Miller 14
Joseph Miller 10




Eliza Miller
in the London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1920
Name: Eliza Miller
Gender: Female
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 25 Nov 1866
Baptism Place: St Mary, Lambeth, Lambeth, England
Father: Thomas Miller - general dealer, Windmill Court
Mother: Jane Miller
Register Type: Parish Register


George Miller
in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: George Miller
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 24 Aug 1862
Baptism Place: St. Mary's, Lambeth, Surrey, England
Father: Thomas Miller
Mother: Jane
FHL Film Number: 1041633
Reference ID: yr 1862-1870


Annie Elizabeth Miller
in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Annie Elizabeth Miller
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 24 Nov 1872
Baptism Place: St. Mary, Lambeth, Surrey, England
Father: Thomas Miller
Mother: Jane
FHL Film Number: 1041634
Reference ID: p 194


MILLER, JOSEPH mmn ROBBINS
GRO Reference: 1870 D Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 427


Daughter "Jane" in 1871 and 1881 censuses - can't see birth:

Sarah Jane Miller
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936
Name: Sarah Jane Miller
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1864
Marriage Date: 2 Feb 1885
Marriage Place: All Saints, South Lambeth, Lambeth, England
Father: Thomas Miller - general dealer
Spouse: William Smithers
Register Type: Parish Register

Address: 21 Portland Cottages. [ 1881 says address is 20 Portland Cottages ]

Is this not them -

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Vauxhall Walk, Lambeth, London & Surrey, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George Edmd Child Head Married Male 35 1856 Labourer Lambeth
Jane Child Wife Married Female 38 1853 - Lambeth
George E G Child Son - Male 3 1888 - Lambeth
Alfred John Child Son - Male 2 1889 - Lambeth, Surrey, England

At No 142 as per original, which does say Child

young George's name has been written between lines - - the EG on the transcript actually looks like Ed - so George Edward

Thank you very much for the suggestion, Argyllgran.

No I hadn't, because I hadn't tried very hard ;-)

I have now had a look and in the 1891 the address seems to be:

Surrey Buildings Lodging House, Surrey Terrace, St George the Martyr Southwark, St Saviour Southwark, London & Surrey, England

And they don't seem to be there - certainly not at 12, 13 and not anywhere else as far as I can see.

I've looked for the family members who logically ought the be present in C1891 and not found any of them.

George Childs
in the 1901 England Census
Name: George Childs
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Jane Childs
Birth Place: Lambeth, London, England
Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 12, 13 Surrey Lodge Buildings <<<<<<<<<<<<<
Registration District: Lambeth
Sub-registration District: Lambeth Church First
ED, institution, or vessel: 01
Neighbors:
Piece: 405
Folio: 13
Page Number: 17
Household Schedule Number: 114
Household Members:
Name Age
George Childs 45
Jane Childs 47
George Childs 13
William Childs 9
Jane Childs 6



Have you found them in 1891 ?

.

And, in case it's helpful:

Name: Alfred John Childs
Gender: Male
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 22 Jun 1892
Baptism Place: St Mary the Less, Lambeth, Lambeth, England
Father:
George Childs
Mother:
Jane Childs
Register Type: Parish Register

Thank you Argyllgran.

The suggested marriage date c.1886 matches with what I believe to be the eldest child, George Edmund Jnr. 1887.

FWIW the birth date of Jane Sarah is confirmed in the 1939 register.

I've looked at the possible George Childs marriages on FMP in and around Lambeth and not found any likely candidates. But that's without looking for misspellings and so on.

The 1911 census says married 25 years 4 children born 3 still living

Posting just for our reference:

George E Childs
in the 1911 England Census
Name: George E Childs
Age in 1911: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: London, United Kingdom
Civil Parish: Lambeth
Country: England
Street Address: 51 Auckland St, Vauxhall, Kennington, London S E
Marital status: Married
Occupation: Potters Labourer
Registration District Number: 25
Sub-registration District: Kennington
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Piece: 1989
Household Members:
Name Age
George E Childs 55
Jane Childs 57
George E Childs 23
William H Childs 19
Jane Sarah Childs 16

George and Jane are said to have been married for 25 years - c1886.

The only George Childs marriage I can see in that timeframe is one in Southwell, Notts - but that man married a Mary Ann, not a Jane, per later censuses.




Jane Sarah Childs
in the London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1920
Name: Jane Sarah Childs
Gender: Female
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 3 Feb 1895
Baptism Place: St Peter, Vauxhall, Lambeth, England
Father: George Edward Childs
Mother: Jane Childs
Register Type: Parish Register


Jane Childs
in the London, England, School Admissions and Discharges, 1840-1911
Name: Jane Childs
Gender: Female
Age: 6
Birth Date: 9 Jan 1895
Admission Date: 15 Jan 1901
School: Westminster Bridge Road School
Father: George Childs
Address: 12 Surry Lodge



The birth you mention:

CHILDS, JANE SARAH mmn ERCOMBE
GRO Reference: 1895 M Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 425

I don't see a Childs/Ercombe marriage.

It's certainly possible, yes. She appears to have been born abt. 1854 so at the postulated marriage in 1883 or thereabouts she would have been 30 ish.

That would suggest that any George Childs marriage around the right date and place might be a candidate, ideally with Jane's name being given as Ercombe.

Is it possible that Jane had been married before ?

I’d appreciate some help, please, in finding some “missing” records.

George Edmond / Edmund Childs 1856 appears with wife Jane 1854 in C1901 and C1911 in Lambeth

With them are:
George Edmund Childs 1887
Alfred John Childs 1889
William Henry Childs 1892
Jane Sarah Childs 1895

I have found GRO records for the births of
George Edmund Childs 1887 <<< MMN = Miller
William Henry Childs 1892 <<< MMN = Miller

Alfred John Childs died young, there are two potential deaths / burials but I have failed to find a believable GRO birth record for him. The one I have found is in Chelsea, MMN = Felton, and appears to belong to the “other” Alfred John.

There are three consecutive baptisms for William Henry, George Edmond, & Alfred John Childs 22 June 1892.

There’s a probable baptism record for Sarah Jane on 3 February 1895 but the only GRO birth record has MMN = Ercombe.

So, I need to find birth registrations for Jane Sarah and Alfred John with MMN = Miller. So far I have failed.

Then, their parents. If I go with MMN = Miller then I can’t find a believable marriage record, parish or civil, with George Childs. Given the birth dates of their children, it should be around 1883. There is one possible record, George Childs and Prudence Jane Wilson 1885, but I tend to believe this is the “other” family, the parents of the other Alfred John in / around Chelsea.

Might anyone be able to find additional candidates please?

Keith