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You're welcome, Keith - though you got there by yourself!
The correct (first) baptism of the child called Thomas - same image as before:
Thomas Deacle
in the Somerset, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages, and Burials, 1531-1812
Name: Thomas Deacle
[Tomas Deacle]
Event Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 13 Jun 1800
Baptism Place: Uphill, Somerset, England
Parish as it Appears: Uphill
Father: Thomas Deacle
Mother: Harriot Deacle
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Thank you ArgyllGran, it really helps talking things through like this.
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I think that's the best explanation so far:
there's no sign (yet) of a Thomas Norvill after the (alleged) baptism.
There's plenty of evidence for Samuel 1800
The previous record is out of sequence: June after July
The caret under Nov 6 and Thomas above it refer to the previous record and the horizontal lines are meant to clarify (but actually confuse ;-)
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Ah, I think you're right about Thomas belonging to the previous record.
Privately baptised in June, and then publicly in November.
Perhaps in June his parents were worried he wasn't going to live.
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Looking again at the various inky squiggles on the baptism record -
Perhaps it's just one child, called Samuel Thomas ?? Is the bit about Samuel intended to be inserted before the bit about the supposed Thomas??
[EDIT - No - ignore. See next post.]
Re the father's obituary in 1854 - it's only as accurate as the writer's or informant's knowledge.
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Hello ArgyllGran
"Can't see anything for Thomas so far. Perhaps he died before 1841, though I don't see a record."
That's what I found too.
The father of Samuel / Thomas was also Samuel born 1777, married twice: Elizabeth Kington, Mary Ann Hirditch. Total of 10 children.
Which triggers a thought: in Weston-super-Mare Gazette, and General Advertiser 08 April 1854 he is said to have had 10 children, I've found 10 not counting Samuel (but counting Thomas) in the baptism record.
So what does that baptism record really say / refer to?
Looking at it a different way suggests that it is "really" a baptism record for Samuel and the "Thomas" actually belongs to the record above which is about a Thomas and ends "the aforesaid"
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It does look as if two children were baptised.
Not necessarily twins - just baptised on the same day.
Siblings:
William Norville
in the Somerset, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages, and Burials, 1531-1812
Name: William Norville
[Willielmus Norville]
Event Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 4 Mar 1799
Baptism Place: Uphill, Somerset, England
Parish as it Appears: Uphill
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
View this parish
Father: Samuel Norville
Mother: Elizabeth Norville
James Norville
in the Somerset, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages, and Burials, 1531-1812
Name: James Norville
[Jabus Norville]
Event Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 15 Feb 1803
Baptism Place: Uphill, Somerset, England
Parish as it Appears: Uphill
Father: Samuel Norville
Mother: Elizabeth Norville
George Norvill
in the Somerset, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages, and Burials, 1531-1812
Name: George Norvill
[Georgius Norvill]
Event Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 17 Feb 1805
Baptism Place: Uphill, Somerset, England
Parish as it Appears: Uphill
Father: Samuel Norvill
Mother: Elizabeth Norvill
Edward Norvill
in the Somerset, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages, and Burials, 1531-1812
Name: Edward Norvill
[Edwardus Norvill]
Event Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 2 Sep 1807
Baptism Place: Weston Super Mare St John, Somerset, England
Father: Saml Norvill
Mother: Elizth Norvill
Yes, there are likely census records for Samuel, born Weston-super-mare.
And a likely marriage giving his father's name.
>>> EDIT: NO, I think the man who married (below) is Thomas and Samuel's father !
He died 1854.
Samuel Norvill
in the Somerset, England, Marriage Registers, Bonds and Allegations, 1754-1914
Name: Samuel Norvill (widower)
Gender: Male
Age: Full Age
Marriage or Bann Date: 4 Jun 1840
Marriage Place: Weston Super Mare St John, Somerset, England
Parish as it Appears: Weston Super Mare
Father: Samuel Norvill <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse: Mary Ann Hirditch
Samuel Norrvill
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Samuel Norrvill
Age: 74
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1777
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Ann Norvill
Gender: Male
Where Born: Uphill, Somerset, England <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Civil Parish: Weston super Mare
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Weston super Mare
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration District: Axbridge
Sub-registration District: Wedmore
ED, institution, or vessel: 4a
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 19
Piece: 1936
Folio: 462
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Norrvill 74
Mary Ann Norvill 34
Louisa A Norvill 9
Henereta L Norvill 6
Laura J Norvill 1
Charlotte Norvill 36
Thomas Treloar 31
Prudence Treloar 32
John M Treloar 6
Lousia Treloar 4
Can't see anything for Thomas so far. Perhaps he died before 1841, though I don't see a record.
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Yes, they were helpful but could not provide any additional information. They offered to check the original of the BT as a paid search, estimated delay 6 weeks, or I could visit the archives myself - but as I live in France that's not practical.
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Have you contacted the Somerset Archives who may have unpublished records?
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I find on FMP:
First name(s) Samuel
Last name Norville
Birth year -
Baptism year 1800
Baptism date 06 Nov 1800 <<<
Denomination Anglican
Place Uphill
County Somerset
Country England
Father's first name(s) Samuel
Father's last name Norville
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
Event type Baptisms, marriages & burials
Archive Somerset Archives
Document type Bishop's transcripts <<<
Archive reference D/D/RR 426
Year range 1598-1812
Record set Somerset Baptism Index
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Collections from England, Great Britain
But there is no image, nor is there a record for Thomas Norville (see below). Similarly on freereg.
I find on Ancestry:
Name: Thomas Norville
[Tomas Norville]
Event Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 6 Nov 1800 <<<
Baptism Place: Uphill, Somerset, England
Parish as it Appears: Uphill
Father: Saml Norville
Mother: Elizabeth Norville
Source Citation
Somerset Heritage Service; Taunton, Somerset, England; Somerset Parish Records, 1538-1914; Reference Number: D\P\uph/2/1/1
Source Information
Ancestry.com. Somerset, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages, and Burials, 1531-1812 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2016.
Original data: Anglican Parish Registers. Somerset Archives & Local Studies, South West Heritage Trust, Taunton, England.
With an image, for the entry see the bottom of the LH page.
But no record (that I have yet found) for Thomas.
It’s possible to read the entry as:
Thomas Novr 6th: was publickly baptized. [ie without parents’ names]
and:
Saml son of Saml: & Elizabeth Norville. [Assuming the same date applies]
Which might suggest that Thomas and Samuel were twins. There is a candidate for this Samuel 1801 in the census records, born WSM (and some interesting obituaries in the papers of the time). I'm struggling to find strong evidence of Samuel's parents and would welcome your suggestions.
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