Genealogy Chat

Oh my goodness, I cannot thank you all enough for this information. I am seriously touched.

<3 <3 <3 <3

ErikaH
"The parents and some older siblings were in Cavalry and Artillery Barracks, St Mary, Northgate, Canterbury in 1841 - father Daniel's occupation FARRIER - as per Ambrose's marriage cert.

Danl Smith 30.born in Kent
Maria Smith 30 born in Kent
Daniel Smith 6
Richd Smith 1
Maria S Smith 15 born in Kent"

I tried to apply for Ambrose's marriage cert, but the GRO refunded my money! Can I ask how you managed to find it please?

Gill

Name: Ambrose Allen Todd Smith
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 25
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1851
Marriage Date: 12 Jun 1876
Marriage Place: St Paul, Shadwell, Tower Hamlets, England
Father: Daniel Smith.................Farrier
Spouse: Maria Martha Westerby............age 20
Father: Joseph Westerby..............Barge Builder
Register Type: Parish Register

Name: Maria Martha Westerby
Gender: Female
Age: 0
Birth Date: 12 Jan 1856
Baptism Date: 10 Feb 1856
Baptism Place: St John the Evangelist, Smith Square, London, Westminster, England
Father: Joseph Westerby
Mother: Sarah Westerby

Marriages Jun 1876 (>99%)

Smith Ambrose Allen T Stepney 1c 880
Westerby Maria Martha Stepney 1c 880

From FREEBMD - showing all info needed to apply to GRO


https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Name: Joseph Westerby
Gender: Male
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 12 Jul 1847
Marriage Place: St John the Evangelist, Clapham, Wandsworth, England
Father: Joseph Westerby
Spouse: Sarah Gill
Father: Henry Gill
Register Type: Parish Register


1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census
4, Hannah Place, Lambeth, London & Surrey, England
Joseph Westerby Head Married Male 35 1826 Barge bulider Norfolk, England
Sarah Westerby Wife Married Female 33 1828 - Petersfield, Hertfordshire (sic), England
Leah S Westerby Daughter - Female 12 1849 - Lambeth, Surrey, England
Edwin E Westerby Son - Male 9 1852 Scholar Battersea, Surrey, England
Francis Westerby Son - Male 7 1854 Scholar Lambeth, Surrey, England
Maria Westerby Daughter - Female 5 1856 Scholar Westminster, Middlesex, England
Alfred Westerby Son - Male 1 1860 - Middlesex, England

Just in case you don't have later censuses:

Ambrose Smith
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Ambrose Smith
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Maria Smith
Gender: Male
Where Born: Lanarkshire, Scotland
Civil Parish: Willingdon
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England
Street Address: Norway Cottages N 8
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Fitter
Registration District: Eastbourne
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors:
Piece: 1036
Folio: 65
Page Number: 30
Household Members:
Name Age
Ambrose Smith 31
Maria Smith 26
Edward Smith 5
Richard Smith 2
Alfred Smith


Ambrose Smith
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Ambrose Smith
Gender: Male
Age: 41
Relationship: Head
Birth Year: 1850
Spouse:
Maria Smith
Child:
Edward Smith
Richard Smith
Robert Smith
Cecilia Smith
Birth Place: Scotland
Civil parish: Greenwich
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Residence Place: Greenwich, London, England
Registration district: Greenwich
Sub registration district: Greenwich East
ED, Institution or Vessel: 23
Neighbors:
Piece: 515
Folio: 39
Household Members Age Relationship
Ambrose Smith 41 Head
Maria Smith 36 Wife
Edward Smith 15 Son
Richard Smith 12 Son
Robert Smith 9 Son
Cecilia Smith 3 Daughter
John Ketchin 47 Lodger

Amhara T Smith
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Amhara T Smith
[Ambrose Allen Todd Smith]
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Maria M Smith
Birth Place: Scotland
Civil Parish: Greenwich
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address:
Registration District: Greenwich
Sub-registration District: Greenwich East
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Neighbors:
Piece: 542
Folio: 94
Page Number: 19
Household Schedule Number: 118
Household Members:
Name Age
Amhara T Smith 50
Maria M Smith 45
Alfred T Smith 20
Daniel R Smith 18
Cecilia M Smith 13
Mary A A Danson 20


Ambrose Allen Todd Smith
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Ambrose Allen Todd Smith
Age in 1911: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Glasgow, Scotland
Civil Parish: Epsom
Country: England
Street Address: 285 Hook Road, Epsom, Surrey
Marital status: Married
Occupation: Labourer
Registration District Number: 31
Sub-registration District: Epsom
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Piece: 2961
Household Members:
Name Age
Ambrose Allen Todd Smith 60
Maria Martha Smith 55


I don't see him in 1871.

1881

Name: Daniel Smith
Age: 73
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1808
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Jane Smith
Gender: Male
Where Born: Raintree, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Southwark St John Horsleydown
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 9 Gainsford St
Marital status: Married
Occupation: Chelsea Pensioner
Registration District: St Olave Southwark
ED, institution, or vessel: 2a
Piece: 556
Folio: 46
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
Daniel Smith 73
Jane Smith 37


Banns
Name: Daniel Smith……….widower
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 29 Mar 1863
Marriage Place: Portland, Dorset, England
Spouse: Sarah Jane Johns……….spinster

No family with them in 1871

Edred Road (Cottage Hospital), Chalton, Dover, Kent, England
Daniel Smith Head - Male 63 1808 - Kent, England
Sarah J Smith Wife - Female 47 1824 - Devon, England
Henry Kilford Boarder - Male 39 1832 - Wiltshire, England
Sarah Clifford Boarder - Female 37 1834 - Worcestershire, England


SMITH, MARIA 53
GRO Reference: 1862 D Quarter in WEYMOUTH Volume 05A Page 217

Name: Edward Ambrose Smith
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 27
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1876
Marriage Date: 24 Aug 1903
Marriage Place: Emmanuel, West Dulwich, Lambeth, England
Father: Ambrose Allen Todd Smith
Spouse: Emma Violet Coppins.................age 23
Father: James William Coppins
Register Type: Parish Register

Name: Emma Violet Smith
Age in 1911: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Stroud, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Watford
Country: England
Street Address: 287 High Steet, Watford, Herts
Marital status: Married
Registration District Number: 140
Sub-registration District: Watford
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Piece: 7710
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Ambrose Smith 34
Emma Violet Smith 32
Ambrose Selling James Smith 7**********************note second forename
Cecilia Violet Smith 5
Myrtle Flora Smith 2


Deaths Mar 1929 (>99%)
Smith Emma V 49 Lewes 2b 350


Name: Edward Ambrose Smith
Marital Status: Widower
Marriage Age: 53
Birth Date: abt 1876
Marriage Date: 1 Aug 1929
Marriage Place: Eastbourne Christ Church, Sussex, England
Parish as it Appears: Christ Church Eastbourne
Father: Ambrose Allan Todd Smith
Spouse: Mabel Ann Neve.................age 56
Father: James Henry Neve

1921

Ambrose Selling James
Smith
1904
London, London, England
Eastbourne
Eastbourne
Sussex

Cecilia Violet
Smith
1906
London, London, England
Eastbourne
Eastbourne
Sussex

Doris Gwendoline
Smith
1918
Eastbourne, Sussex, England
Eastbourne
Eastbourne
Sussex

Edward Ambrose
Smith
1876
London, London, England
Eastbourne
Eastbourne
Sussex

Miriam Frances
Smith
1912
Watford, Hertfordshire, England
Eastbourne
Eastbourne
Sussex

Winifred Muriel
Smith
1914
Watford, Hertfordshire, England
Eastbourne
Eastbourne
Sussex

Myrtle Flora
Smith
1908
London, London, England
Eastbourne
Eastbourne
Sussex

Edward
Cocking
1873
Thorne, Yorkshire, England
Eastbourne
Eastbourne
Sussex

Flora Anne
Cockin
1871
East Malling, Kent, England
Eastbourne
Eastbourne
Sussex

Marriages Sep 1897 (>99%)
Cocking Edward Lewisham 1d 2052
COPPINS Flora Ann Lewisham 1d 2052

The paish register for Ambrose's marriage is available on Ancestry. Ambrose was a Blacksmith from Shadwell.

It looks as though the lights were out when the register was copied but you can see that everyone signed their own names.
Added.
Maria & Ambrose are in a lot of Ancestry trees. They are also on the Find a Grav site. Maria died in 1911, Ambrose 1919 both had been in the Epsom Workhouse and buried in the local cemetry

Thanks once again everyone for your help. I have now got answers to so many questions I had.

Looks like I'm going to have to pay for Ancestry membership!!

Gill

Daniel Robert Smith
Spouse Annie Tarrant
Father Ambrose Allen Todd Smith
Mother Maria Martha Westerby
Children Miriam Rosina Annie
Birth 30 Oct 1882 Poplar, Middlesex, England
Death 21 Sep 1938 Greenwich, Kent, England
Residence 1930 Greenwich, Kent, England

Name: Ambrose Allen Todd Smith
Age: 68
Birth Date: abt 1851
Death Date: abt 1919
Burial Date: 15 Feb 1919
Burial Place: Epsom Cemetery, Surrey, England

Name: Mrs Maria Martha Smith
Birth Date: Mar 1856
Birth Place: Battersea, London Borough of Wandsworth, Greater London, England
Death Date: Jun 1911
Death Place: Epsom, Epsom and Ewell Borough, Surrey, England
Cemetery: Epsom Cemetery
Spouse: Ambrose Allen Todd Smith

Name: Alfd Francis Smith
Gender: Male
Age: 7
Birth Date: 2 Jun 1880
Admission Date: 5 Dec 1887
School: St Leonard's Road School
Father: Ambrose Smith
Notes: Saint Leonard's Road School (0641) opened in 1885

"Daniel Robert Smith
Spouse Annie Tarrant
Father Ambrose Allen Todd Smith
Mother Maria Martha Westerby
Children Miriam Rosina Annie
Birth 30 Oct 1882 Poplar, Middlesex, England
Death 21 Sep 1938 Greenwich, Kent, England
Residence 1930 Greenwich, Kent, England"

I have Daniel as marrying Elizabeth R Pilgrim in 1902. I cannot find this marriage? Can I ask where you found this please?

The information ErikaH posted is the overview of a public tree on Ancestry.

However, when one actually looks at the tree, his wife is shown as Elizabeth Rosina Pilgrim.


This is that marriage:

Daniel R Smith
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: Daniel R Smith
Registration Date: Jan 1931[Feb 1931] [Mar 1931]
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District: Greenwich
Inferred County: London
Spouse: Annie Tarrant
Volume Number: 1d
Page Number: 1158


I don't see a 1902 marriage to Elizabeth R Pilgrim.

NO marriage on freebmd for Elizabeth R Pilgrim to Smith

Name: Elizabeth Pilgrim
Registration Year: 1902
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District: Woolwich
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 1532
Records on Page:
Name
Annie Maude Jones
Jack Jones
Elizabeth Pilgrim
Robert Smith



SMITH, ALFRED AMBROSE PILGRIM
GRO Reference: 1904 D Quarter in GREENWICH Volume 01D Page 1118
SMITH, JOSEPH ROBERT EDWARD PILGRIM
GRO Reference: 1903 M Quarter in GREENWICH Volume 01D Page 1165
SMITH, ROBERT PILGRIM
GRO Reference: 1907 J Quarter in GREENWICH Volume 01D Page 1101

I assume this is the 1902 marriage:

Marriages Mar 1902 (>99%)
Jones Annie Maude Woolwich 1d 1532
Jones Jack Woolwich 1d 1532
Pilgrim Elizabeth Woolwich 1d 1532 <<<<<<<<
Smith Robert Woolwich 1d 1532 <<<<<<<


Do you have a copy of the cert, to be sure this is the correct couple?

Name: Alfred Ambrose Smith
Age in 1911: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1905
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: London, United Kingdom
Civil Parish: Greenwich
Country: England
Street Address: 29 Newcastle Street, East Greenwich S E
Registration District Number: 28
Sub-registration District: Greenwich East
ED, institution, or vessel: 04
Piece: 2690
Household Members:
Name Age
Daniel Albert (Robert) Smith 29
Elizabeth Rosina Smith 32
Joseph Robert Edward Smith 8
Alfred Ambrose Smith 6
Robert Smith 4


Name: Alfred Ambrose Smith
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 3 Nov 1904
Baptism Place: Christ Church, Greenwich, Kent, England
Father: Robert Daniel Smith
Mother: Elizabeth