Genealogy Chat

From the marriage that AG posted and the possible children
Thomas Mortimer Rees Winter married Gwendoline Gilylian ? Morgan Marshall 30/03/1912
All the children posted belong to this couple, they lived at 14,Eistedford street, Cardiff.
Doesn't seem to have been born with the odd second name , but she was married with it.

sadly

Name: Gordon F Winter
Death Age: 1
Birth Date: abt 1915
Registration Date: Oct 1916
[Nov 1916]
[Dec 1916]
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Cardiff
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 408

Name: Norman M Winter
Death Age: 0
Birth Date: abt 1919
Registration Date: Oct 1919
[Nov 1919]
[Dec 1919]
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Cardiff
Inferred County: Glamorganshire

Name: Joyce G Winter
Death Age: 1
Birth Date: abt 1919
Registration Date: Oct 1920
[Nov 1920]
[Dec 1920]
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Cardiff
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 417

Sorry I havnt replied sooner but last night turned into we will all chat to mum evening , firstly thank you all for taking the time to reply.

Namelessone
I have found who I think they are in 1937 index and they are in Cardiff and have no children with them a that time

IArgyll Gran
I have looked at this as this is the one they all seem to have in all the trees as our Gwendoline Marshall, and the Gwendoline I think it is on the 1911 census is single \t home with her brothers and parents
That is my GG grandprents Emily Trott and Francis Marshall

The Gwendoline Marshall with Emily and Francis and her brothers on the 1911 census at Scott Street is mine,

I then think its her marriage to Thomas M R Winter, I have looked at children and have Thomas 1913, Gordon F 1915 died 1916, Trevor 1917, Joyce and Norman 1919, I have looked at marriages for them but have gone no further until I can confirm the right Gwendoline Marshall and her marriage

Erika H

When I first started my mum was alive and gave me names etc and then by buying certificates and lots of checking with other family members I know the one that Gwendoline is with in Scott street are my gg grandparents, my great grandfather was her brother the eldest of the children and that is 100%
sadly the aunt I would speak to passed away just three weeks ago and my mothers remaining siblings are all very poorly , unfortunately I had a difficult childhood because of my mother mental health she kept us away from family so i dont know cousins and extended family well and so have nobody to ask.

Thank you for the info regarding the general records office I will be sending for the marriage certificate today

Thank you everyone

Pam

You CAN send for certificates - it will just take longer than usual for your request to be processed - below is from the GRO site

Coronavirus

Due to Covid-19, certificate orders will not be completed within the published timescales

In line with public health guidance to help stop the spread of the coronavirus, the General Register Office is currently operating with reduced staffing to comply with social distancing restrictions.
We remain committed to processing orders as fast as we can, however please do not contact us for updates as we will be unable to confirm when your order will be completed.
If your order is not urgent, please help us to support those who need our services the most by coming back at a later date to apply.

For priority orders using Royal Mail Special Delivery or DHL Delivery, please check the relevant website for updates on delivery information.

How did you work back to Gwendoline?

Are you 100% certain that the one with parents in 1911 is your relative?

Ignore others’ trees. Trust only that which you can verify yourself

Don’t ‘fit’ people into your tree - research them and add them only if they are proven to be your relations

You refer to her as your GG aunt - which of her siblings is your PROVEN direct line? Are the ‘parents’ who she is with in 1911 definitely your ancestors?

Don’t worry about telling others they are wrong - look after you own tree, and ensure that it is 100% accurate, by checking and double-checking at every step

If you really feel you have to tell the other tree owners that they're wrong -

where are the trees you mention?

If they're the ones on Ancestry, click on the tree owner's name at the top of the tree page, and send them a message.

Personally, I wouldn't bother.
Most of them haven't decided on that wrong info by themselves. One person got the wrong marriage, and the others have just copied the details without bothering to check for themselves.

There were several Winter/Marshall births in Cardiff:

Thomas 1913; Gordon F 1915; Trevor R 1917; twins Joyce G and Norman M 1919.

Do these names ring family bells for you?

This looks like Gwendoline M's marriage - note her middle name Morgan in her death record at the end of this post:

Marriages Mar 1912 (>99%)
Marshall Gwendoline G M Winter Cardiff 11a 550
Winter Thomas M R Marshall Cardiff 11a 550


Gwendoline Winter
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Gwendoline Winter
Gender: Female
Marital status: Married
Birth Date: 11 Sep 1890
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 31 St Donat's Road
Residence Place: Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales
Occupation: Unpaid domestic duties
Schedule Number: 129
Sub Schedule Number: 2
Enumeration District: XGTV
Registration district: 588/3
Inferred Spouse: Thomas R Winter
Household Members:
Name
Thomas R Winter
Gwendoline Winter


Her death:

WINTER, GWENDOLINE MORGAN 60
GRO Reference: 1950 D Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 08B Page 189

Gwendoline Morgan Marshall
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Gwendoline Morgan Marshall
Registration Year: 1890
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Cardiff
Inferred County: Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 254


MARSHALL, GWENDOLINE MORGAN mms TROTT
GRO Reference: 1890 D Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 254


Parents' marriage :

Marriages Jun 1874 (>99%)
Marshall Frank Pontypridd 11a 521
TROTT Emily Pontypridd 11a 521


So (for our reference) this is Gwendoline Morgan Marshall in 1911 - and therefore she's not the Gwendoline who married Alfred:

Gwendoline Marshall
in the 1911 Wales Census
Name: Gwendoline Marshall
Age in 1911: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1890
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish: Cardiff
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: 10 Scott St Cardiff Glam
Marital status: Single
Occupation: Servant
Registration district: Cardiff
Registration District Number: 588
Sub-registration district: Central Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Household schedule number: 189
Piece: 32117
Household Members:
Name Age
Francis Marshall 55
Emily Marshall 59
H J Marshall 36
William Marshall 35
Charles Marshall 33
Albert Marshall 27
Prcy Marshall 24
Gwendoline Marshall 21
Fredrick Weaver 39 - lodger, married [name looks like Wixey on image ]

What was your Gwendoline's date of birth?

This (below) is the one who married Alfred Dittmer:

Gwendoline Dittmer
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Gwendoline Dittmer
Gender: Female
Marital status: Married
Birth Date: 29 Aug 1889 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 31
Residence Place: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties
Schedule Number: 194
Sub Schedule Number: 2
Enumeration District: OAEN
Registration district: 319/3
Inferred Spouse: Alfred J Dittmer
Household Members:
Name
Alfred J Dittmer
Gwendoline Dittmer


That Gwendoline is with Alfred and the child in 1911 - so if your Gwendoline is definitely at home with her parents in 1911, then she can't be the one who married Alfred Dittmer.

Have you checked for under the various married names on the 1939 index? It might Just solve the problem if you are lucky. Have you a marriage for a GM after the 1911 census.

If you can prove it you can tell them, but they don’t have to believe you or bother to change their trees.

I have taken up my family history again after long break and land straight back into a query. My GG Aunt is on the 1911 census at home with her parents and single but several other people have her in different trees as in 1909 married to an Alfred James Dittner. I can find a marriage of a Gwendoline MORGAN Marshall born in Cardiff 1890 but two other Gwendoline Marshalls born in 1888 & 1889 in Cardiff any one could fit into my tree, Im just confused if she was married why she is at home with her parents and single and, i have seen an entry for Gwendoline Morgan Dittner in Bristol with a husband and child, if m right and all these trees are wrong how do I tell all these people they are wrong, I cant send for a cerificate now as everything is closed and im all confused
Pam