Genealogy Chat

Looks like the Benjamin (c1833) who was the father of Walter's wife was the son of the Benjamin (1784 here, but 1777 in 1861 above) who was the father of Walter's mother.

Does that make sense - I'm totally confused!
Benjamin 1833 was a brother of Walter's mother, and was the father of Walter's wife. So Benjamin 1833 was Walter's uncle and also his father-in-law. So Walter's wife Alice was his cousin. [I think that's right!]

Benjamin Benton
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Benjamin Benton
Age: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1833
Relation: Son
Father's name: Benjamin Benton
Mother's name: Mary Benton
Gender: Male
Where born: Noak Hill, Essex, England
Civil Parish: Romford
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration district: Romford
Sub-registration district: Romford
ED, institution, or vessel: 2g
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 41
Piece: 1772
Folio: 189
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
Benjamin Benton 67
Mary Benton 57
Benjamin Benton 18 - carpenter
Mary Anna Benton 3 - grand-daughter


Birth of the grand-daughter Mary Ann - possibly a daughter of Benjamin 1833, and half-sister of Alice ??:

BENTON, MARY ANN -
GRO Reference: 1848 M Quarter in THE ROMFORD UNION Volume 12 Page 224

Walter Kerby
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Walter Kerby
Gender: Male
Marital status: Married
Birth Date: 27 Sep 1858
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 12 Thorn Blds Oxford Rd
Residence Place: West Ham, Essex, England
Occupation: Retired
Schedule Number: 26
Sub Schedule Number: 2
Enumeration District: CBBL
Registration district: 188-1
Household Members:
Name
Alice S Kerby - 7 Sept 1865
Walter Kerby

This could be Walter's death:

Deaths Dec 1943 (>99%)
KIRBY Walter 85 Essex S.W. 4a 222

The Benjamin Benton who was Mary Ann's father is not the same Benjamin Benton who was Walter's father-in-law:

Georgeina Benton
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Georgeina Benton
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: 1858
Relation: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Upminster, Essex , England
Civil Parish: Romford
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district: Romford
Sub-registration district: Romford
ED, institution, or vessel: 8b
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 50
Piece: 1069
Folio: 26
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
Benjamin Benton 84
Mary Benton 69
Mary Anne Benton 13 - grand-daughter
Georgeina Benton 3 - grand-daughter
James Parker 62 - lodger

Walter and Alice's parents' marriage:

Mary Ann Benton
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1932
Name: Mary Ann Benton
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 35
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1829
Marriage Date: 18 Jan 1864
Marriage Place: St Leonard, Shoreditch, Hackney, England
Father: Benjamin Benton <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse: Samuel Kirby
Register Type: Parish Register


So Walter's mother was a sister of his wife ????? surely that can't be right???
[EDIT: NO, SEE NEXT POST ]


Walter with his mother before she married Samuel Kirby:

Walter Benton
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Walter Benton
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: 1859
Relation: Son
Mother's name: Mary A Benton
Gender: Male
Where born: Romford, Essex, England
Civil Parish: Romford
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district: Romford
Sub-registration district: Romford
ED, institution, or vessel: 2l
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 296
Piece: 1068
Folio: 43
Page Number: 56
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary A Benton 35
Walter Benton 2



Walter Benton
in the Essex, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1918
Name: Walter Benton
Baptism Date: 2 Jun 1859
Baptism Place: Romford, St Edward The Confessor, Essex, England
Mother: Mary Ann Benton

Going back to Walter - his father was Samuel:

Walter Kirby
in the Essex, England, Church of England Marriages, 1754-1935
Name: Walter Kirby
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 27
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1858
Marriage Date: 11 Oct 1885
Marriage Place: Stratford, St Paul, Essex, England
Father: Samuel Kirby
Spouse: Alice Benton


Walter in 1871, where his birthplace agrees with 1911 census already posted:

Walter Kirby
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Walter Kirby
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: 1858
Relation: Son
Gender: Male
Where born: Romford Essex England
Civil Parish: St James
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Walthamstow
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Household schedule number: 535
Piece: 1637
Folio: 54
Page Number: 101
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Kirby 38
Mary A Kirby 40
Georgina Kirby 14
Walter Kirby 13
Alice Kirby 6



Sister's birth, apparently illegitimate, but still Kirby ???:

KIRBY, GEORGIANA -
GRO Reference: 1857 S Quarter in ROMFORD Volume 04A Page 87


Sister Alice:

Alice Kirby
in the Essex, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1918
Name: Alice Kirby
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 8 Dec 1864
Baptism Place: Romford, St. Andrew, Essex, England
Father: Samuel Kirby
Mother: Mary Ann Kirby

She married William Webb in West Ham in 1885.


Very interesting - Alice's mms was Benton:

KIRBY, ALICE mms BENTON
GRO Reference: 1864 D Quarter in THE ROMFORD UNION Volume 04A Page 100


So this is Walter's birth - illegitimate:

BENTON, WALTER -
GRO Reference: 1858 D Quarter in THE ROMFORD UNION Volume 04A Page 75

Birth of the child Alfred, listed on 1891 census:

KIRBY, ALFRED CHARLES mms BENTON
GRO Reference: 1891 M Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 294

and sadly, his death:

Alfred Charles Kirby
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Alfred Charles Kirby
Estimated birth year: abt 1892
Registration Year: 1892
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 0
Registration district: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 5





Birth of the child Walter, also listed in 1891 census:


KIRBY, WALTER CHARLES mms BENTON
GRO Reference: 1888 S Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 188


He also died in infancy:

Walter Charles Kirby
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Walter Charles Kirby
Estimated birth year: abt 1888
Registration Year: 1891
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 3
Registration district: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 9

Thank you all I found apart of what i was looking for i will go through the information you have given me

You say you don't know when the daughter Alice Constance died.

Alice Coustance Kirby
in the Essex, England, Church of England Marriages, 1754-1935
Name: Alice Coustance Kirby
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 23
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1899
Marriage Date: 16 Apr 1922
Marriage Place: Stratford, Holy Trinity, Essex, England
Father: Walter Kirby
Spouse: George Everard


Alice C Everard
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Alice C Everard
Gender: Female
Marital status: Married
Birth Date: 6 Oct 1898
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 60
Residence Place: West Ham, Essex, England
Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties
Schedule Number: 34
Sub Schedule Number: 2
Enumeration District: CBBA
Registration district: 188-1
Inferred Spouse: George B Everard
Inferred Children: Leslie W Everard
Household Members:
Name
George B Everard
Alice C Everard
This record is officially closed.
Leslie W Everard



Alice Constance Everard
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Alice Constance Everard
Death Age: 82
Birth Date: 6 Oct 1899
Registration Date: Jan 1982
[Feb 1982]
[Mar 1982]
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Newham
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 15
Page: 1907

Alice with siblings and father in 1871, after her mother's death, with grandparents:

Sophia A Benton
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Sophia A Benton
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: 1866
Relation: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Highgate Middlesex England
Civil Parish: St Saviour
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: St Saviour Southwark
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 138
Piece: 597
Folio: 66
Page Number: 31
Household Members:
Name Age
John Peat 64 [ surname is Dent mistranscribed ]
Sophia Peat 60
Ellen Peat 30
Betsey Peat 24
Sophia Peat 29
Charles Peat 24
Benjamin Benton 38
Sussanah E Benton 9
Charles B Benton 9
Henry T Benton 7
Sophia A Benton 5


Births of the other siblings:

BENTON, HENRY THOMAS mms DENT
GRO Reference: 1863 S Quarter in SHOREDITCH Volume 01C Page 106

BENTON, SUSANNAH ELEANOR mms DENT
GRO Reference: 1861 D Quarter in SHOREDITCH Volume 01C Page 111

Where did you look?

These are the sites you need to use - and bookmark for future reference

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

Walter Kirby
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Walter Kirby
Age in 1911: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Romford, Essex
Civil Parish: West Ham
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address: 190 Henniker Rd, Stratford
Marital status: Married
Occupation: House Decorator
Registration district: West Ham
Registration District Number: 188
Sub-registration district: Stratford
ED, institution, or vessel: 31
Piece: 9372
Household Members:
Name Age
Walter Kirby 55
George Butterfield 43 - boarder
Alice Kirby 49 - born City of London
Ethel Kirby 19
Frank Kirby 15
Alice Kirby 12
Grace Kirby 9


Alice Kirby
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Alice Kirby
Gender: Female
Age: 24
Relationship: Wife
Birth Year: 1867
Spouse: Waller Kirby
Child: Ada Kirby
Waller Kirby
Alfred Kirby
Birth Place: Boro, London, England
Civil Parish: Wanstead
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Residence Place: Wanstead, Essex, England
Registration district: West Ham
Sub registration district: Leyton
ED, Institution or Vessel: 38
Neighbors:
Piece: 1349
Folio: 63
Household Members:
Name Age
Waller Kirby 32
Alice Kirby 24
Ada Kirby 4
Waller Kirby 2
Alfred Kirby 2/12
Henry Cornford 40


Alice Benton
in the Essex, England, Church of England Marriages, 1754-1935
Name: Alice Benton
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1864
Marriage Date: 11 Oct 1885
Marriage Place: Stratford, St Paul, Essex, England
Father: Benjamin Benton <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse: Walter Kirby



Alice Benton
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Alice Benton
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Relationship to Head: Daughter
Father: Benjamin Benton
Gender: Female
Where born: Islington
Civil Parish: Bermondsey
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 32 Hamilton Sq
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub registration district: Leather Market
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors:
Piece: 558
Folio: 38
Page Number: 23
Household Members:
Name Age
Benjamin Benton 48 - carpenter
Charles Benton 19 - son
Alice Benton 15
Mary Benton 30 - niece


Births of Alice and her brother:

BENTON, CHARLES BENJAMIN mms DENT
GRO Reference: 1861 D Quarter in SHOREDITCH Volume 01C Page 111


BENTON, ALICE SOPHIA mms DENT
GRO Reference: 1865 D Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 290


Parents' marriage:

Marriages Sep 1861 (>99%)
Benton Benjamin Shoreditch 1C 412
Dent Susannah Shoreditch 1c 412


Susannah's death ??

Deaths Dec 1868 (>99%)
Benton Susannah 35 St. Saviour 1d 12

Marriage:

Marriages Dec 1885 (>99%)
Benton Alice W. Ham 4a 165
Kirby Walter West Ham 4a 165



Births of children:


KIRBY, ADA ELEANOR mms BENTON
GRO Reference: 1886 S Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 27

KIRBY, ETHEL MAUD mms BENTON
GRO Reference: 1893 J Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 5


KIRBY, GRACE ELEANOR mms BENSON
GRO Reference: 1902 M Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 22

KIRBY, FRANK WALTER mms BENTON
GRO Reference: 1896 M Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 37

KIRBY, ALICE CONSTANCE mms BENLON
GRO Reference: 1898 D Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 37

Hi
Im trying to find out what Walters wife surname was. All that i know is that Walter was born 1856 not sure when he died he married an Alice born 1862 and she died 1948 on christmas day. their children were adeline eleanor born 1886 died 1973, Alice 1899 not death date ,Grace E born 1902 died 1985, ethal 1891 died 1959 and frank born1896 stratford and died 1955 westham just cant frind the marriage
Thank you