Genealogy Chat

I am looking for my Husbands Grandfather and am hitting brick walls. I realise he is deceased but all we have is a marriage cert for him and working from that a date of birth roughly!
He disappeared when my Father in Law was 6 yr old , so we are really just looking for closure for the poor man. It's been a mystery for too long. :-(
If anyone can give me tips on what to do from here? London is too big for such little information we have!
Thanks,
emma

Welcome to the boards Emma.

What are all the details from the marriage certificate ?

Do you know of any siblings

Does the mmn below ring bells?

What year did he disappear and where was he when last seen

If the birth was Holborn it looks to be this one in 1913

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Jun 1913 (>99%)
Thomas Henry J Evel Holborn 1b 1077

birth cert. would give DOB which may help find other records and would confitm names of parents with mmn also shown

Not seeing a Thomas/Evel marriage or other births to that combination - Am wondering about below. Holborn and St Giles less than a mile apart

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1905 (>99%)
EBEL Florence St. Giles 1b 1028
THOMAS William St. Giles 1b 1028


and there is this birth also in Holborn
Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Dec 1917 (>99%)
Thomas Eva D Ebel Holborn 1b 674

but ? no births 1905 - 1913

EDIT - found this one didn't show up initially
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
THOMAS, FLORENCE LILIAN EBEL
GRO Reference: 1907 S Quarter in ST.PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 45

???? Image says she is a Widow. Wrongly completed if widowed to say Married 5 years 3 children born, 2 have died

Widow has been written in a different hand

1911 Census For England & Wales

269 Union St Blackfriars, Christchurch, London & Surrey, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Florence Odelia Thomas Wife Widow Female 23 1888 - 98 Commerical Road Peckham
Florence Lilian Thomas Daughter - Female 3 1908 - 46 Hartrison Street Kings Cross

Transcript only - no image

View London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1917

Name: Henry John Thomas
Baptism Age: 0
Record Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 29 Apr 1913 <<<<<<<<<<<
Baptism Date: 8 Jun 1913
Baptism Place: St John the Evangelist, Red Lion Square, Camden, England
Father: William Thomas
Mother: Florence Thomas

but there is an image for this one

View London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1917

Name: Florence Lilian Thomas
Record Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 9 Jun
Baptism Date: 31 Jul 1907
Baptism Place: St George the Martyr, Queen Square, Camden, England
Father: William Thomas
Mother: Florence Adelia Thomas

of 46 Harrison Street. William is a Carman <<<<<< address as per baptism

View London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1917

Name: Eva Doris Thomas
Baptism Age: 0
Record Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 15 Nov 1917
Baptism Date: 2 Dec 1917
Baptism Place: St John the Evangelist, Red Lion Square, Camden, England
Father: William Thomas
Mother: Florence Thomas

Image for this baptism shows Address as 1 East Street. Father a soldier

? birth and death of another child

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
THOMAS, WILLIAM GEORGE EBEL
GRO Reference: 1906 J Quarter in HOLBORN Volume 01B Page 627

Deaths Dec 1906 (>99%)
Thomas William George 0 Holborn 1b 412

In the 1939 register (date of birth the same as on the baptism record):-

56 Nigel Buildings, Holborn, London, England

Thomas household
(1 person)

First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number

Henry J Thomas 29 Apr 1913 Male Textile Warehouseman Married 222 1

The transcription only has Henry on his own, however on the image there is a wife Mary Thomas, born 5th Feb. 1918 and one closed record. This could be a child or some other person living with them.

Kath. x

There is this marriage which would fit:-

First name(s) HENRY J
Last name THOMAS
Marriage quarter 3
Marriage year 1938
Registration month -
MarriageFinder ™

HENRY J THOMAS married one of these people

Mary O'sullivan

Spouse's last name O'sullivan
District Holborn
District number -
County London
Country England
Volume 1B
Volume as transcribed 1B
Page number 1413
Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Marriage & Divorce

Kath. x

There is this death which has the same date of birth:-

First name(s) HENRY JOHN
Last name THOMAS
Gender Male
Birth day 29
Birth month 4
Birth year 1913
Age -
Death quarter 1
Death year 1988
District Northampton
Register number 388
County Northamptonshire
Volume 7
Page 2894
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007

The informant on the death certificate could be a relative.

Kath. x

Well done Kath, I couldn't get into the 1939 on FMP - they've altered how to get in and it took me a while to figure it out, by which time you were there.

Poster needs a certificate or two!

greyghost - I found FMP had changed too but I must have clicked something without realising because the 1939 page came straight up and I don't know how.

I have sent a message to the poster to let her know she has replies in case she thought Genes would inform her.

Kath. x

Thankyou both for your help. Really appreciate it!

Yes, the marriage Certificate I have a copy of is the one above and is the correct one.

It is from July 9th1938 in St John the Evangelist Church in Holborn.

It states his age as 25, Bachelor, Furniture Salesman, and Fathers name is William Thomas. Can't make out father's profession...I think it is Dec? Would that mean deceased?

Address given is hard to make out also...1 Lambs C...Passage!

We do know he was in the British Army for a time when they were married, but details are sketchy. Family tale is he was in the Royal Ordnance regiment. They lived in Bantry, Co Cork where both of their children were born, however Mary would not sign him out of the army at the time and he left. Would this make sense or is it family folklore?

His son Alan Thomas returned to London at a very young age and died in Islington on the 26th October 1983. I have that death Cert also.

And yes He would have been born in 1913. Went with the family's date but if I looked myself the marriage cert confirms 1913!

Are you sure the children were born in Ireland as there is this birth? :-

First name(s) ALAN W
Last name THOMAS
Birth year 1939
Birth quarter 3
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name O'sullivan
District Surrey North Eastern
County Surrey
Country England
Volume 2A
Page 232
Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006

There is also this birth in Co. Cork:-

First name(s) Patrick A
Last name Thomas
Registration year 1942
Registered quarter/year Oct - Dec 1942
Registration district Bantry
Volume 5
Page 23
Mother's last name (original) O'Sullivan
County Cork
Country Ireland
Record set Irish Births 1864-1958

Kath. x

Have a look at this site - https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records

Service records after 1920 are still with MOD, but they can be applied for.

Hi, We were told both were born in Ireland and Alan's death cert has him as born on the 16th July 1939 , Irish Republic.
Pat, who is my Father in law is adament they were both born here.
I will talk to him tonight and find out more.
Thankyou.

The birth in Surrey would be right for a July birth. Perhaps he was taken to Ireland as a small baby and just thought he had been born there.

The place of birth on a death certificate is only as accurate as the informant's knowledge of the deceased.

Only by getting the birth certificate could you be certain.

Kath. x

Thanks Kathleen, I will try to get a birth cert for Alan and get back to you.