Genealogy Chat

Unfortunately you can't count on 1912 being his actual year of birth, as the year is quite often wrong on the 1939 Register, although the day and month are mostly correct.

If he was Annie and William's own child, we can't find his birth because we don't know Annie's maiden name.

If he was another child they adopted, we have no way of knowing what his birth name might have been.


1939 for Thomas, for our reference:

Thomas Jones
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Thomas Jones
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 25 Dec 1912
Residence Date: 1939
Residence Place: Maesteg, Glamorganshire, Wales
Occupation: Bus Driver
Line Number: 35
Schedule Number: 100
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: XJOD
Borough: Maesteg
Registration district: 591 1
Inferred Spouse:
Doris Jones
Household Members Age
Thomas Jones 27
Doris Jones 24 [ Doris M Jones - 16 Sept 1915 ]

Address: 140 Caeran Road


Their marriage ??:

Doris M Thomas
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: Doris M Thomas
Registration Date: Jan 1936[Feb 1936] [Mar 1936]
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District: Bridgend
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Spouse: Thomas G Jones <<<<<<<<<<<< note middle initial
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: 941


Doris's death - with YOB a year out:

Doris Monica Jones
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Doris Monica Jones
Death Age: 68
Birth Date: 16 Sep 1916
Registration Date: Sep 1984
Registration District: Ogwr
Inferred County: Mid Glamorgan
Volume: 27
Page: 627


Doris's birth:

THOMAS, DORIS MONICA mmn JOHNS
GRO Reference: 1915 D Quarter in BRIDGEND Volume 11A Page 1519


If you are sure that that's the right Thomas, the marriage cert would tell you his father's name if known - or his mother's, if no father's name .

Thomas G Jones, 25/12/1912, and Doris Monica Thomas, 16/9/1915, are on a private tree on Ancestry.
Tree owner is Michael Turvey.
I suspect the names and DOBs are just from the records posted above, and not from birth or death certs

sorry I didn't answer this earlier . Thomas was born on December 25 1912 according to the 1939 census his surname there is Jones . he is a bus driver in Caerau Maesteg I can't find a birth record .

I think you may be mixing up Daniel Jenkins's daughter with your Annie.

Annie Jenkins is the one you're looking at in 1871, 1881, and 1891, and Annie Jenkins married in 1889 (not 1899 as in your last post).

I know the 1889 marriage matches the 22 years of marriage stated for your Annie in 1911 - but they can't be the same person.

Your Annie, with son Willie and husband William, is in Maesteg in 1901, as you say, aged 36.

But the other Annie (Daniel's daughter) , age 30, with husband William and children Elizabeth M, Arthur, and Tydvel, is in Merthyr Tydfil in 1901 - census posted at 16:51 today.
Her age in censuses consistently fits with 1870 or 1871 birth - she was born in 3rd quarter 1870 - posted earlier.

Her children's births are also posted at 16:51, all with mmn Jenkins.


We don't know where your Annie was before 1901, and we don't know her maiden name. 1901 says she was born in Newport, Mon., and 1911 says Monmouthshire.

Obviously the 1911 age is wrong But they are in Nantyffyllon as Rosie is with them and I have her scool record which shows her at school there and in Maesteg In1901 Annie is in Castle street Maesteg with husband William and son Willie hOn the er age there is 36 . On the wedding Certificate in 1899 in Merthyr Tidfil she is 19.In 1891 She is in Dowlais Merthyr Tydfil age 20 In 1881 she is 11 and 1871 she is 7 months
That is if I have all the right census 's

Yes, censuses aren't always accurate.
William senior wasn't very good at filling in forms - he made several mistakes in 1911 - and didn't remember to correct that one.

But the 1901 census says c1865, which is more or less correct, given her age at death, and the DOB stated in 1939.



You said that Tom Jones was on the 1939 Register, with year of birth 1912.
What was his full date of birth as given in 1939, please?

Ages are different on all the census records . On the 1911 censu Annies age is given as 30 ,but she has been married 22 years

As Annie was Rose's adopted mother (whether or not officially) , she was indeed a "granny" to Rose's children. She brought Rose up, so it's not surprising they were close.

But it doesn't necessarily mean that Annie and Rose were blood relatives.


When my own children were small, they called an elderly neighbour "Granny".
It was her suggestion, and my husband and I were happy to agree, so that's what we always called her. She had no children of her own
Their real grandmothers lived too far away to visit often - and didn't mind our lovely neighbour being another granny!

Erika H .: The reason I think they might be related is they were in close touch Annie was known as Granny Jones by Rose's Children but they also knew that Mary Jane was their grandmother . . They aslo knew the families of Mary Jane's sister's were cousins . In later years when she was widowed Annie lived with Rose and her family . Annie passed away in 1941

When a registration says June, it means the April/May/June quarter.

A birth, marriage, or death registration on any date in that quarter will say June.

You posted a marriage in June . The date on my certificate is 25th May Could it be that it took time to register it . ?

In 1901 and 1911, your Annie and William have their son William/Willie with them, born 1889-1890 in Newport, Monmouthshire - which is also where Annie is said to have been born.

Can't (yet) find a birth for William with mmn matching an Ann(ie) birth or a Jones marriage..


Anne Jones
in the 1901 Wales Census
Name: Anne Jones
Age in 1901: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Wife
Spouse: William Jones
Gender: Female
Where Born: Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Cwmdu
Town: Maesteg
Ecclesiastical parish: Llangynwyd St Cynwyd
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration District: Bridgend
Sub-registration District: Maesteg
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 164
Piece: 5041
Folio: 19
Page Number: 30
Household Members:
Name Age
William Jones 39
Anne Jones 36
Willie Jones 12

This is that child in 1891, with her husband and daughter:


Anne Eliz Jones
in the 1891 Wales Census
Name: Anne Eliz Jones
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William Jones
Gender: Female
Where Born: Rhymney-Bridge, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Merthyr Tydfil
Ecclesiastical parish: Dowlais
Town: Dowlais
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration District: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub registration district: Upper Merthyr Tydfil
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors:
Piece: 4439
Folio: 105
Page Number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Jenkins 42 - widow
Mary J Jenkins 13
Cecelia Jenkins 4
William Jones 25
Anne Eliz Jones 20
Elizabeth M Jones 1


JONES, ELIZABETH MARY mmn JENKINS
GRO Reference: 1888 J Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 587


And in 1901:

Ann E Jones
in the 1901 Wales Census
Name: Ann E Jones
Age in 1901: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Wife
Spouse: William Jones
Gender: Female
Where Born: Llechryd, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Merthyr Tydfil
Town: Dowlais
Ecclesiastical parish: Dowlais St John
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration District: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub-registration District: Upper Merthyr Tydfil
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 22
Piece: 5030
Folio: 6
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
William Jones 35
Ann E Jones 30
Elizabeth M Jones 11
Arthur S Jones 5 [ Arthur T on image ]
Tydvel R Jones 2


JONES, ARTHUR TREVOR mmn JENKINS
GRO Reference: 1895 S Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 712

JONES, TYDIRL ROSAMOND mmn JENKINS
GRO Reference: 1899 M Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 733



Annie 1870 could well be the Annie who married William Jones in 1889.

But she's not the Annie who took in Rosie Jones - she's on a different 1901 census record (see next post) with birth c1865..


Was the idea of maiden name Jenkins purely based on that 1889 marriage?

That Daniel's wife was a Thomas. Are you sure this is the right family?

The births of the children on the 1881 census which you posted above:

JENKINS, CATHERINE mmn THOMAS
GRO Reference: 1880 J Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 447

JENKINS, MARY JANE mmn THOMAS
GRO Reference: 1877 D Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 450

JENKINS, THOMAS THOMAS mmn THOMAS
GRO Reference: 1868 M Quarter in CRICKHOWELL Volume 11B Page 124

JENKINS, ANN ELIZA mmn THOMAS
GRO Reference: 1870 S Quarter in CRICKHOWELL Volume 11B Page 115


Daniel and Mary did have a daughter Annie E - but born 1870, posted above:

Annie E Jenkins
in the 1871 Wales Census
Name: Annie E Jenkins
Age: 7 Months
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Daniel Jenkins
Mother's Name: Mary Jenkins
Gender: Female
Where born: Langunider, Brecknockshire, Wales
Civil parish: Llangunider
County/Island: Breconshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Crickhowell
Sub-registration district: Llangunider
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 8 W
Piece: 5584
Folio: 101
Page number: 39
Household Members Age Relationship
Daniel Jenkins 22 Head
Mary Jenkins 23 Wife
Thomas T Jenkins 3 Son
Annie E Jenkins 7 Months Daughter

Argyll Gran The Daniel jenkins that I have was born in Rhymney Bridge Monmouth
Daniel Jenkins Head Married Male 32 1849 Coal miner Rhymney Bridge, Glamorganshire, Wales
Mary Jenkins Wife Married Female 32 1849 - Dowlais, Glamorganshire, Wales
Thomas Thomas Jenkins Son Single Male 13 1868 Coal miner Rhymney Bridge, Glamorganshire, Wales
Ann Eliza Jenkins Daughter Single Female 11 1870 Scholar Rhymney Bridge, Glamorganshire, Wales
Mary Jane Jenkins Daughter Single Female 4 1877 - Dowlais, Glamorganshire, Wales
Catherine Jenkins Daughter Single Female 1 1880 - Dowlais, Glamorganshire, Wales

Why do you think there is ANY connection between the birth mother and the family who took in Rose Davies?

Daniel (transcribed as Camiel on Ancestry) Jenkins, in the 1871 census previously posted, was a quarryman.

He died in 1878.

Daniel Jenkins
in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1995
Name: Daniel Jenkins
Death Date: 25 Feb 1878
Death Place: Glamorgan, Wales
Probate Date: 23 May 1893
Probate Registry: Carmarthen


JENKINS Daniel, of 5 Castleton Street, Mumbles, Glamorgan, quarryman, died 25 February 1878. Administration Carmarthen 23 May to William Jenkins, pilot's assistant. Effects: £80.


If this is the correct Daniel in 1871, his wife's maiden name was Hoskin(s), so no immediately obvious Davies connection there.

The two 1911 records for reference ( the first one posted on page 1, but copied again for ease ) -

Rose Ester Davies
in the 1911 Wales Census
Name: Rose Ester Davies
Age in 1911: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1903
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Maesteg, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish: Llantrisant
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: 6 Brick Yard House Penycoedcae Nr Pontypridd
Registration district: Pontypridd
Registration District Number: 589
Sub-registration district: Llantrisant
ED, institution, or vessel: 05
Household schedule number: 97
Piece: 32297
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Williams 28
Mary Iane Williams 24
Rose Ester Davies 8


Rosie Jones
in the 1911 Wales Census
Name: Rosie Jones
Age in 1911: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1903
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Higher Llangynwyd
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: 32 Kings Terrace Nantyflwn Nr Maesteg
Marital status: Single
Registration District: Bridgend
Registration District Number: 591
Sub-registration District: Maesteg
ED, institution, or vessel: 05
Household Schedule Number: 381
Piece: 32530
Household Members:
Name Age
William Jones 40
Annie Jones 30
William Jones 21
Rosie Jones 8

You say the marriage was in 1899.

Do you mean the 1889 marriage which I posted on 4 Dec at 12:27 ?

My Grandmother Rose Esther Davies and her brother Tom were brought up by William and Annie Jones .No official adoptions at that time .My Grandmother was born in 1903 I haven't been able to trace a birth record for Tom . !939 register says he was born in 1912 On her wedding certificate my grndmother gave her name as Jones but her birth name was Davies (unmarried mother ) Her birth mother was Mary Jane Davies
This is the Davies Family in 1891
Number 8 Temple Street Maesteg
Charles Davies Head Married Male 61 1830 Coal miner London, Middlesex, England
Johanna Davies Wife Married Female 55 1836 - Glamorganshire, Wales
Charles D Davies Son - Male 12 1879 Scholar Maesteg, Glamorganshire, Wales
Rose E Davies Daughter - Female 10 1881 Scholar Maesteg, Glamorganshire, Wales
Janet A Davies Daughter - Female 8 1883 Scholar Maesteg, Glamorganshire, Wales
Margaret E Davies Daughter - Female 6 1885 Scholar Maesteg, Glamorganshire, Wales
Mary J Davies Daughter - Female 4 1887 Scholar Maesteg, Glamorganshire, Wales
William Davies Son - Male 2 1889 - Maesteg, Glamorganshire, Wales
My grandmother is listed with her birth mother on the 1911 census in Merthyr Tydfil 8years old with Mary Jane (now Williams )and her husband Robert Williams although they actually married in 1915 . She is listed there as Rose Esther Davies (mothers maiden name ) BUT she is also on a census in 1911 in Nantyffyllon Maesteg with the Jones's listed as Rosie Jones .

I have been trying to trace if Annie Jones was related to the Davies family .I originally thought her maiden name was Davies but have now found that she was Jenkins .

The marriage was 25th May 1889 in Mertyr Tidfil register office .
William Jones age 23 married Annie ElizabethJenkins age 19
He was an Engine Driver His father was Thomas Jones Farm Labourer.
Annue 's Father was Daniel Jenkins deceased Coal Miner