Genealogy Chat

There does seem to be a Dobbs connection re that 1939 record you posted for Dora Jones and family.

Possible births of the children:

JONES, ELIZABETH DORA IRENE mmn DOBBS
GRO Reference: 1917 D Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 48


JONES, IVOR DOUGLAS mmn DOBBS
GRO Reference: 1925 J Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 59

JONES, RAYMOND MORGAN mmn DOBBS
GRO Reference: 1931 S Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 47


Donald (Gordon) Jones's birth appears to have been illegitimate.

JONES, GORDON DONALD -
GRO Reference: 1929 D Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 49



Marriage of the parents:

Marriages Jun 1908 (>99%)
DOBBS Mary Jane Monmouth 11a 90
Jones Thomas John Monmouth 11a 90

But that doesn't necessarily make Annie a Dobbs too - and so far, I don't see any reason to think she was.

There were a number of other Jones/Dobbs births in Monmouth:


William Clement 1912 - died 1921.

Ronald Sidney Bernard - 3/4/1914 - living in Dursley, Gloucestershire in 1939.

Margaret Louisa 1914 - died 1914-15. Could be same family as Ronald, though cutting it fine.. If so, maybe born prematurely.

Lena Jones Baker 1914 - can't see her later. Not the same family as Ronald - births too close together.

Rennie Ernest Verdun - 26/9/1916 - living with brother Ronald S B in 1939.

Win(n)ifred 1920 - died 1935.

Iris Louisa 1922 - mmn mistranscribed as Wobbs on GRO, though Dobbs on FreeBMD & Ancestry. Too common a name to trace after birth.

Lionel 1927-8 - not with Dora and family in 1939, nor his death pre-1939, so probably a different family.

At the risk of confusing everyone even more (if that's possible) - by going back to Rose Esther -

Don't think it's already posted - apologies if so.

Marriages Sep 1921 (>99%)
Evans Stephen Jones Bridgend 11a 1675
Jones Rose E Evans Bridgend 11a 1675


You've already posted 1921 for Thomas Gregory Jones and the rest of the family -
at 1a South Parade.


Rose Esther Evans
in the Glamorganshire, Wales, Electoral Registers, 1832-1978
Name: Rose Esther Evans
Residence Date: 1931
Residence Street Address: 1a South Parade
Residence Place: Glamorgan, Wales
Parliamentary Division: Ogmore Division

Living with John Rees Jones, Annie Jones, husband Stephen Evans, and Edward Jones.

1930 - the same people, plus William Evans and William Davies.

1932 - at same address:
John Rees Jones, Annie Jones, Edward Jones, William & Annie Fean.

1933 -
John Rees Jones, Annie Elizabeth Jones, Edward Jones, Thomas Gregory Jones, Idris Francis, John Mills, William Davies.

1934:
John Rees Jones, Annie Elizabeth Jones, Thomas Gregory Jones, John Mills, William Davies, and George Trezise.

1935:
John Rees Jones, William George Launchbury, and Violet Hollister.


In the early 1920's (and from at least 1891), at 1a South Parade there are William and Annie Jones (plus various other names, possibly lodgers) .while John Rees Jones is at 11 South Parade, until 1925 with Minnie Jones.

Marriages Mar 1902 (>99%)
Davies Minnie Ann Merthyr T. 11a 970
Jones John Rees Merthyr T. 11a 970

Minnie's death:
JONES, MINNIE ANNE 48
GRO Reference: 1925 D Quarter in BRIDGEND Volume 11A Page 866


John and Minnie are at 11 South Parade in 1911.
I had wondered if he might be a brother of William Jones (Annie's husband), but having traced him back through the censuses , he's not.


The point of all that is to say that if Annie Jones in some years is the same person as Annie Elizabeth in other years (and your Annie is Annie E in 1939) , that might seem to take us back to Annie Elizabeth Jenkins , who married a William Jones in 1889.

But she's already been discounted - see pages 3 and 4 of this thread..

Transcript of William's record
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First name(s) William
Country Wales
Last name Jones
Volume 11A
Marriage quarter 2
Volume as transcribed 11A
Marriage year 1890
Page number 160
Registration month -
Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005
MarriageFinder™ William Jones married one of these people
Annie Elizabeth Dobbs
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
District Bedwellty
Subcategory Civil Marriage & Divorce
District number -
Collections from Great Britain, Wales
County Monmouthshire

This is the marriage I found on Find my past It only has Annie .as the spouse .

Where do you find the election registers ? I have not been able to figure them out on find my past.
I do know that Dora married a William J Dance and they lived in Abergavenny .
We used to visit them . And there was a Lionel in her family . .

this is the James Healey marriage . Same page number

Transcript of James's record
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First name(s) James
Country Wales
Last name Healey
Volume 11A
Marriage quarter 2
Volume as transcribed 11A
Marriage year 1890
Page number 160
Registration month -
Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005
MarriageFinder™ James Healey married one of these people
Annie Elizabeth Dobbs
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
District Bedwellty
Subcategory Civil Marriage & Divorce
District number -
Collections from Great Britain, Wales
County Monmouthshire

:-S

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Palmers Flat, West Dean, Monmouth, Gloucestershire, England
View original record
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Household members (7 people)
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First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Benjamin Dobbs Head - Male 30 1841 - Gloucestershire, England
Mary Ann Dobbs Wife - Female 30 1841 - Gloucestershire, England
Mary Ann Dobbs Daughter - Female 9 1862 - Gloucestershire, England
John Dobbs Son - Male 6 1865 - Gloucestershire, England
Annie Dobbs Daughter - Female 3 1868 - Gloucestershire, England
John Roberts Boarder - Male 45 1826 - Gloucestershire, England
William Roberts Boarder - Male 11 1860 - Gloucestershire, England
This seems to be Annies family in 1871 The address now is in England not Wales Part of Monmouth crossed the border

Back
in association with The National Archives
Raymond Jones in 1939
1939 Register
20 Rolls Avenue, Monmouth, Monmouth M.B., Monmouthshire, Wales
1939 register
Household members (6 people)
Copy to clipboard
First name(s) Last name(s) Birth date Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule sub number
John Jones 08 Sep 1884 Male General Labourer Married 209 1
Mary J Jones 21 Jul 1886 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 209 2
Dora Jones 16 Nov 1917 Female Incapacitated - Blind Single 209 3
Ivor Jones 10 May 1925 Male At School Single 209 4
Donald (Gordon) Jones 08 Nov 1929 Male At School Single 209 5
Raymond Jones 06 Jun 1931 Male At School Single 209 6

There are two Marriages for Annie Elizabeth Dobbs One to James Healey and one to William Jones Same Volumn and Page Both Quater 2 1890 .

First Name James
Last Name Healey
Gender Male
Year 1890
Spouse
Image Quarter 2
Country Wales
County Monmouthshire
District Bedwellty
District Number
Registry Number
Volume 11A
Page 160
Line Number 268


First Name William
Last Name Jones
Gender Male
Year 1890
Spouse
Image Quarter 2
Country Wales
County Monmouthshire
District Bedwellty
District Number
Registry Number
Volume 11A
Page 160
Line Number 288

The ERs are on Ancestry.

This is the Dobbs marriage as shown on Ancestry and also on FreeBMD:

Annie Elizabeth Dobbs
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Annie Elizabeth Dobbs
Registration Year: 1890
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration District: Bedwellty
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 160
Records on Page:
Name
Annie Elizabeth Dobbs
James Healey
William Jones

There should be a second female name there too, as the bride of that William Jones, but maybe it's been mistranscribed in some way and not showing up.
I don't understand the FMP alternatives you give.

That Annie married James Healey, as proved by the censuses below:

Annie Elizabeth
in the 1891 Wales Census
Name: Annie Elizabeth
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: James Healy
Gender: Female
Where Born: Llangynidr, Breconshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Llangynider
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
Town: Beaufort Carmel Town
County/Island: Breconshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration District: Crickhowell
Sub registration district: Llangynider
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors:
Piece: 4574
Folio: 26
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
James Healy 24
Annie Elizabeth 21 [ surname missed out of transcription]


Annie E Healy
in the 1901 Wales Census
Name: Annie E Healy
Age in 1901: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Wife
Spouse: James Healy
Gender: Female
Where Born: Risca, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Gelligaer
Ecclesiastical parish: Pontlottyn St Tyfaelog
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration District: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub-registration District: Gelligaer
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 99
Piece: 5021
Folio: 28
Page Number: 18
Household Members:
Name Age
James Healy 33
Annie E Healy 31
Thomas C Healy 7
Abraham Healy 5


Annie Elizabeth Healy
in the 1911 Wales Census
Name: Annie Elizabeth Healy
Age in 1911: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Town Not Known, Breconshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Gelligaer
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: Ivy Cottage Farm Road Pontlottyn
Marital status: Married
Years Married: 20
Estimated Marriage Year: 1891
Registration District: Merthyr Tydfil
Registration District Number: 590
Sub-registration District: Gelligaer
ED, institution, or vessel: 01
Household Schedule Number: 103
Piece: 32402
Household Members:
Name Age
James Healy 43
Annie Elizabeth Healy 41
Thomas Charles Healy 17
Abraham Healy 15
Olive Healy 9
Gertrude May Healy 3


Here she is before marriage (probably). I don't think the 1871 census you posted is the correct family.:

Ann Elizabeth Dobbs
in the 1881 Wales Census
Name: Ann Elizabeth Dobbs
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Charles Dobbs
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Dobbs
Gender: Female
Where Born: Rassau, Breconshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Llangunider
County/Island: Breconshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: Rassau
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Scholar
Registration District: Crickhowell
Sub registration district: Llangunider
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors:
Piece: 5463
Folio: 37
Page Number: 17
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Dobbs 38
Elizabeth Dobbs 33
Evan Charles Dobbs 14
John Dobbs 12
Edwin Dobbs 9
Ann Elizabeth Dobbs 10
William Dobbs 6
Abram Dobbs 3
Mary Jane Dobbs [6 months ]


She does have a sister named Mary Jane - but that's *NOT* the Mary Jane who was blind Dora Jones's mother.
Dora's mother was 6 years younger.
Annie Elizabeth's sister married William John Lewis in 1904.


Births of the Healey children up to 1911:

HELEY, GERTRUDE MAY mmn DOBBS
GRO Reference: 1908 M Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 811

HEALEY, OLIVE mmn DOBBS
GRO Reference: 1901 D Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 666 Occasional Copy: A

HEALY, ABRAHAM mmn DOBBS
GRO Reference: 1896 M Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 666

HEALY, THOMAS CHARLES mmn DOBBS
GRO Reference: 1893 S Quarter in CRICKHOWELL Volume 11B Page 103

Here is Annie Healey in 1939 - so, again, clearly not your Annie:

Annie L Healy
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Annie L Healy
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Widowed
Birth Date: 1 Dec 1869
Residence Date: 1939
Address: 30 Farm Road
Residence Place: Gelligaer, Glamorganshire, Wales
Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties
Line Number: 26
Schedule Number: 34
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: XJJB
Borough: Gelligaer
Registration district: 593-1
Household Members Age
Annie L Healy 70
Ivor Healy 28 [ her son ]

Ivor's birth:

HEALY, IVOR mmn DOBBS
GRO Reference: 1911 D Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 1482


ERs show her at that address from 1929 onwards:

Annie Elizabeth Healy
in the Glamorganshire, Wales, Electoral Registers, 1832-1978
Name: Annie Elizabeth Healy
Residence Date: 1929
Residence Street Address: 30 Farm Road
Residence Place: Glamorgan, Wales
Parliamentary Division: Caerphilly Division

In 1929 she's with Abraham; 1931-32 with Gertrude; 1934-39 with Ivor.



Her birth and death:

DOBBS, HANNAH ELIZABETH mmn JONES
GRO Reference: 1869 D Quarter in CRICKHOWELL Volume 11B Page 122


Deaths Jun 1956 (>99%)
Healy Hannah E 87 E.Glamorgan 8b 224


If only your Annie was so easy to trace!

The difficulty with Annie is we know Rose and Thomas were adopted ,but they are listed as daughter and son on the census . So is William listed as a son ,but we don't know about hiim . If he is also adopted his birth surname could be anything. The 199 eleven census says two children living and two who have died . But I don't know how old they were or how to find them.
The Edward Jones on the Election rolls I think was a relation (possibly a nephew ) who came from Monmouth to work in the colliery . Sadly'he was killed there in 1933 and is buried with Annie and the two Williams . Aniie's husbad died in 1926 and son William died in 1925 .

Looking at the two Annie's One was born in Gloucester in 1868 the other 'born in Breconshire in 1970
If you put James Healey in BMD itsays married to Annie Elizabeth Dobbs .The same as when you put William Jones in.
As you say Annie's sister Mary Jane is not Dora's mother . as the age is wrong .
On the census with the Gloucester Annie I have a Mary Ann Dobbs born1862 who married a William John Jones in178 (she was aged 16)
With so many similar names in both families I think t is likely that they are all related in some way .as it was common to keep names in the family .

Unfortunately, the name Jones is so very common that there is no reason to think that any one Jones family was necessarily related to any other Jones family unless there is proof.

The names William, John, Ann(ie), Mary, Jane, and so on, are also extremely common, and crop up in most families, whether their surname is Jones or not.

I have the same problem trying to work out my first husband's tree, as his ancestors all came from a couple of islands in the Hebrides, where there were only a few surnames, and where only a handful of first names were used in every family, and in every generation, so that it becomes impossible to work out which families are related to each other - though most of them probably were, in some way.

Just messing around, trying to identify Edward - aged 36 at death in 1933.

Probably another pointless search. However . . . . .

This one seems possible, if he did indeed come from Monmouth.
And it turns out that he has a sister Ellen.
It's a VERY long shot, because of all the common names, but *IF* this is the right Edward, I wonder if Ellen MIGHT be the Ellen Jones who was the mother of Thomas Gregory.

Edward Jones
in the 1901 Wales Census
Name: Edward Jones
Age in 1901: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1897
Relation: Son
Father: Edward Jones
Mother: Mary Ann Jones
Gender: Male
Where Born: Monmouth, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Monmouth
Town: Monmouth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration District: Monmouth
Sub-registration District: Monmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 91
Piece: 4923
Folio: 64
Page Number: 20
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Jones 33 - Redbrook, Monmouthshire
Mary Ann Jones 31
Lizzie A Jones 9
Ellen Jones 6
Edward Jones 4
Henry Jones 2



Edward Jones
in the 1911 Wales Census
Name: Edward Jones
Age in 1911: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1897
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Redbook Valley, Gloucester, England
Civil Parish: Monmouth
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: 8 Upper Wyeside Monmouth
Registration District: Monmouth
Registration District Number: 583
Sub-registration District: Monmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 04
Household Schedule Number: 87
Piece: 31739
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Jones 47 - widower
Ellen Jones 16
Edward Jones 14
Harry Jones 11
John Jones 9
George Jones 6



Probable births of children.

???
JONES, LIZZIE ANN mmn PRICE
GRO Reference: 1894 D Quarter in LLANDILOFAWR Volume 11A Page 1055

JONES, ELLEN mmn PRICE
GRO Reference: 1895 J Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 31

JONES, EDWARD PRICE
GRO Reference: 1897 J Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 21

JONES, HENRY JOHN PRICE
GRO Reference: 1899 S Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 31

JONES, JOHN PRICE
GRO Reference: 1901 S Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 33

??
JONES, ALBERT GEORGE PRICE
GRO Reference: 1904 S Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 16


Ellen's marriage:

Ellen Jones
in the Monmouthshire, Wales, Anglican Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1551-1994
Name: Ellen Jones
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: 1895
Marriage Date: 24 Sep 1917
Marriage Place: Llanhilleth, Monmouthshire, Wales
Father: Edward Jones
Spouse: Walter John Sterrey
Page number: 87

Witnesses: Oliver Frank Sterrey and Edward Jones.

Llanhilleth is only about 7 miles from Griffithstown where Thomas Gregory was born.


Marriages Sep 1917 (>99%)
Jones Ellen Sterrey Newport M. 11a 342
Sterrey Walter J Jones Newport M. 11a 342

Two children: Walter Edward John (1926), and Mary Harriett (1924).


Deaths Sep 1927 (>99%)
Sterry Ellen 32 Chepstow 11a 4

Her husband Walter remarried in Chepstow in 1928, to Olive Elizabeth Brooks, and they're in Chepstow in 1939.


Edward Jones senior (born in Redbrook) does not instantly look like a brother of Annie E's husband William (born Maesteg).
But on the other hand, I can't see either Edward or William before 1901 - so who knows.

Looks like you could be right about Thomas being Ellen's son . It is a surprise because the family all thought he was Rose's brother.
I wasn't sure if Dora was related on Williams side or Annie's I found the Birth of Elizabeth Dora that fits 1921 and 1939 . Same parents names and birth dates . Could she be related on both sides ?
Thank you fo all your help . You have worked hard .

Hello . I'm back again. Still stuck Pretty certain now that Annie was maiden name Dobbs the daughter of Benjamin Dobbs and Mary Ann (maiden name Roberts) I know Annie was related to Dora and I have managed to link them up

..Still trying to find a connection to Thomas Gregory . Annie and William were in Maesteg in 1901 and Nantyffyllon (a mile away ) in 1911 . So how did they know Thomas and the family in Monmouth . ???


Trying to trace William's perents . Could be the family in 1871 ,But William is still with .in 1891. Still Single when the 1911 census says he was married 22 years

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Garn Road, Llangynwyd, Bridgend, Glamorganshire, Wales
Household members (7 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Jones Head - Male 38 1833 - Glamorgan, Wales
Jane Jones Wife - Female 38 1833 - Breconshire, Wales
William Jones Son - Male 8 1863 - Glamorgan, Wales
Elizabeth Jones Daughter - Female 5 1866 - Glamorgan, Wales
Mary C Jones Daughter - Female 1 1870 - Glamorgan, Wales
Thomas Price Step-son- Male 12 1859 - Glamorgan, Wales
Elizabeth Price Mother-in-law - Female 68 1803 - Breconshire, Wales

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Morton Terrace, Ystradyfodwg, Pontypridd, Glamorganshire, Wales
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Jones Head Married Male 59 1832 Collier Taibach, Glamorganshire, Wales
Jane Jones Wife Married Female 58 1833 - -
William Jones Son Single Male 27 1864 Collier Maesteg, Glamorganshire, Wales
Lizzie Jones Daughter Single Female 24 1867 - Maesteg, Glamorganshire, Wales
Catherine Jones Daughter Single Female 21 1870 - Maesteg, Glamorganshire, Wales


There is another William in Newport that seems possible But he is Single in1891. Also,Is it likely that a Shipping Foreman would come to Maesteg to work in the colliery .???

William Jones in 1891
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Herbert Street, St Woollos, Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Edward Jones Head Married Male 65 1826 Shipping contractor Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales
Elizabeth Jones Wife Married Female 62 1829 - Bassaleg, Monmouthshire, Wales
William Jones Son Single Male 30 1861 Shipping foreman Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales

Still haven't found a marriage of Annie and William (if there ever was one ) Or a birth for William in1889

Any other ideas .
Pamela .